Debenhams £99 'returning costs' - advice needed please :-)

mmthornton

Hello all,

Having a bit of a nightmare with Debenhams Plus and figured there'd be an abundance of people here well in the know about subjects such as this.

I ordered an American style side-by-side fridge freezer over the telephone from Debenhams Plus and paid part gift card, part debit card. I expressed doubt over the phone about whether it would fit through my door but, after chatting with the operator, decided to take the chance. A few days later, the delivery van arrived and the men advised us to refuse the delivery of the fridge freezer as they were certain it would not fit through our door. Dimension-wise, my door should have been big enough as I'd measured it prior to ordering. However, we decided to trust the delivery men as they obviously know their stuff with doing this kind of thing everyday. I must say, the delivery drivers were absolutely splendid and I assume they didn't know about this charge otherwise I feel they would have warned us. I signed the refusal, as advised, and the fridge freezer was returned, having never left the delivery van.

I received an email soon after advising me that my return had been approved and then didn't hear anything further for 10 days. On this 10th day, I sent a message via their emessage system to find out about the whereabouts of my refund or how / when it was to be processed. Soon after, I received a reply saying my refund would be chased up and that the cost of returning this appliance would be £99.

This had not been mentioned during the original phone call when making the order, nor when the delivery men were advising me to refuse the delivery. Two opportunities to advise me about this extortionate charge and two opportunities missed.

I feel that I should have been made aware of this charge either prior to ordering (especially after expressing doubt over the phone) or before signing it away to be returned with the delivery drivers. I certainly wouldn't have sent it back for £99. I probably would have spent the day dismantling the fridge and my house doors to get it into my house or would have made other plans for it. I feel it very unfair to find out afterwards and now that I have no choice of what to do with the fridge freezer.

The £99 charge has since been lowered to £80 by one of their team members over emessage as a 'gesture of goodwill' and whilst I do appreciate this, I still wouldn't have sent the fridge back for £80.

I'm a bit lost about what to do. I do understand that costs need to be covered in returning goods but costs as high as £99 should really be made clear beforehand, surely? Armed with that knowledge I would have held onto the fridge, perhaps stored with a family member or as I said before, dismantled everything in sight to get it into my house. I feel i've been robbed of making this decision.

They've come back to me with a snippet of their terms and conditions:

Below is the terms and conditions which relate to costs charged to the customer on a failed delivery:-
5.5 If for any reason the Customer fails to accept delivery of any of the Products when they are ready for delivery, or the Seller is unable to deliver the Products on time because the Customer has not provided appropriate instructions, documents, licences or authorisations:
5.5.1 risk in the Products shall pass to the Customer (including for loss or damage caused by the Sellers negligence);
5.5.2 the Products shall be deemed to have been delivered; and
5.5.3 the Seller may store the Products until delivery, whereupon the Customer shall be liable for all related costs and expenses (including, without limitation, storage and insurance).
We are very sorre we are unable to give you a more favourable response on this occasion but our charges are applicable to your refund.
Their last response was 'We regret this is the charge which will be applied to your refund and we are unable to proceed any assist any further on this occasion.'

Is this their get out of jail free card?

The outcome I am looking for is at least a severe reduction in the amount they shall be taking off my refund. What do my chances look like?

Thanks very much for taking the time to read it and I appreciate any advice at all!
Mandy

fluffnutter

Off the top of my head, I don't think they've contravened any consumer law. Under the DSR return carriage is the responsibility of the customer (provided this is specified in the T&Cs). Firstly I'd get some quotes from couriers to see what kind of price you'd have been able to get yourself had you taken receipt of the fridge then returned it under your own steam.

If you can find cheaper quotes, then I'd be asking for a reduction to the lowest price you can demonstrate. I think it's reasonable that you pay a charge - after all Debenhams shouldn't be out of pocket because you've changed your mind - but they shouldn't overly profit from that charge, IMO.

That you've measured up, believed it to fit yet took the advice of the delivery men is also something worth mentioning. Good luck.

pimento

Did you know that the doors of these side by side fridge freezers are usually designed to be removed so they will fit through the door? You can then put them back on once it is in place.

Can you look at the manual or call the manufacturer to see if this is the case with the one you have bought?

I feel your pain because my dad and husband almost came to blows when mine was delivered and the delivery men would only get it as far as the front door.

mmthornton

Hello, thanks for the replies.

Yes, we knew that the doors come off those fridges and we had tools at the ready the morning it was delivered. I discussed over the phone about the taking of doors off etc so they knew that this could have been an issue. This is why i'm so boggled as to why they couldn't quickly mention that it would be a hefty price should we need to refuse the delivery. In hindsight I wish I had asked about this and this is certainly a case of living and learning. I won't be making that mistake again.

The delivery men for Debenhams Plus only do doorstep delivery, they have nothing to do with taking doors off etc. etc. which is all fine. We knew that beforehand. We were prepared for the fridge/freezer not to fit through the front door whilst packaged up in all it's boxing but we were prepared to take fridge doors off if required. However, the delivery drivers convinced us that it wouldn't fit and who am I to ignore their experience? We didn't even unload the thing off the van he was so sure.

However, if before signing to refuse the delivery I had been made aware that it was going to be at a cost of £99 I would have got the thing off the van and spent the day dismantling!

Hmph! I feel I have been massively wronged but feel like I aren't going to be able to win this one :-(

neilmcl

I take it you had a copy of the T&Cs available to you prior to delivery, and you were fully aware that you may have to return the FF, so why didn't YOU check just how much the cost of such a return would be in the event that it couldn't be installed in your home? I don't believe the retailer to be at fault here.

stugib

mmthornton wrote: »

However, if before signing to refuse the delivery I had been made aware that it was going to be at a cost of £99 I would have got the thing off the van and spent the day dismantling!

Can't you get them to deliver it to you again rather than return it?

frugal_mike

The Distance Selling Regulations only allow the retailer to recover reasonable costs incurred from delivering the goods back to them. They are not allowed to impose a penalty or charge a restocking fee. So, how much were they charging for delivering the goods to you?

I have no idea what a reasonable cost of re-delivery would be, but if the truck was going back to where the fridge needed to be taken to anyway then £80 may well be excessive, especially if the delivery truck was owned and run by Debenhams. If it was an independent courier then the charge may be reasonable.

mmthornton

neilmcl wrote: »

I take it you had a copy of the T&Cs available to you prior to delivery, and you were fully aware that you may have to return the FF, so why didn't YOU check just how much the cost of such a return would be in the event that it couldn't be installed in your home? I don't believe the retailer to be at fault here.

Yes, of course. And the 'live and learn' cliche strikes again. I certainly regret not asking them over the phone for a rough idea of how much the refusal of delivery would cost. Having said all of that, I'd never expect it to be as high as £99, especially since they didn't have to do a separate collection. It seems as though they could pluck any number out of the air and get away with it, how would anyone know any different? I find it a highly unreasonable figure.

We've since bought another fridge freezer so it's no use having the original redelivered. I just want my refund minus a reasonable amount for the returns of the goods.

neilmcl

mmthornton wrote: »

Yes, of course. And the 'live and learn' cliche strikes again. I certainly regret not asking them over the phone for a rough idea of how much the refusal of delivery would cost. Having said all of that, I'd never expect it to be as high as £99, especially since they didn't have to do a separate collection. It seems as though they could pluck any number out of the air and get away with it, how would anyone know any different? I find it a highly unreasonable figure..

Then you could always find out exactly how much it would cost to deliver an american style FF and dispute their charge.

fallen121

We have an American Fridge Freezer. We had it delivered through a normal sized door. The doors unhinge to enable delivery almost anywhere. The delivery men should have known this.

neilmcl

fallen121 wrote: »

We have an American Fridge Freezer. We had it delivered through a normal sized door. The doors unhinge to enable delivery almost anywhere. The delivery men should have known this.

The delivery guys in this instance only do doorstep delivery and wouldn't be authorised to do this, as explained in the OP's post #4.