My Brothers ex has taken the children to northern ireland without warning

someonepleasehelpme

I'm not entirely sure how many times she has smacked them as I only saw her a couple of time a week but I have seen her do it on a couple of ocassions.

I have said to her that there are other ways of punishing them but she's used words to the effect 'they've got to learn' or 'this will teach them'. I know we all have different ways of bringing up our children but I would never treat mine (I have 2 children aged 2 and 3) the way she does.

I remember one ocassion she was changing the youngest's nappy and he started crying, really crying. She was up the other end of the room so I couldn't see what happened but I did ask her why he was crying and all she said was 'well he wouldn't keep still, so I had to make him'.

Perhaps she didn't hit him. Who knows? Maybe we've just got different views on bring up children.

hollydays

So she didnt leave marks?(not that I am advocating smacking)

hobo28

Smacking is an emotive subject. I used to smack mine and now I don't. It was my choice to stop as it wasn't working, hurt me more than them and it taught them it was ok to smack me back if they were angry with me! That said, I'd hate for any nanny state to tell me how to best bring up my kids and the same must apply for other parents.

The question I guess is how far is too far and that is subjective. Smacking is rightly or wrongly allowed. Whats not is assault. The line where one becomes the other is unfortunately very grey. If you believe she's assaulting rather than smacking then the police are the correct channel to go through.

My advice is not to worry too much about whether or not he has PR. He can get that via court as a matter of formality almost. On a day to day basis it doesn't mean much as it doesn't necessarily follow that once he gets PR, he will get x days a week contact.

If he intends to fight to get fair access then unless he's entitled to legal aid, its likely to cost him a fair whack. The costs for my solicitor to ping a few letters here and there and turn up to court twice was more than £3000.

There's no easy answer here as your brother is on the backfoot and despite recent changes of views, the law still strongly favours the mother.

Nicki

Bear in mind as well that Northern Ireland, although part of the UK, does have a different legal system, and the law is not always the same there as here. I do not know, for example whether the Children Act is in force in the same way there as it is here. I also don't know whether as the children are now in Northern Ireland with their mother, whether the English courts would have any jurisdiction on this matter.

My advice would be to get your brother to seek advice from a solicitor in Northern Ireland while he is there. Otherwise, I would also post your request for advice on a Northern Irish board, rather than an English one, but bear in mind that people sometimes post absolute rubbish on forums about what is and is not the law, based on their own misunderstandings of the law, so you may well be given some very poor advice if you go down that route.

hobo28

Nicki wrote: »

Bear in mind as well that Northern Ireland, although part of the UK, does have a different legal system, and the law is not always the same there as here. I do not know, for example whether the Children Act is in force in the same way there as it is here. I also don't know whether as the children are now in Northern Ireland with their mother, whether the English courts would have any jurisdiction on this matter.

My advice would be to get your brother to seek advice from a solicitor in Northern Ireland while he is there. Otherwise, I would also post your request for advice on a Northern Irish board, rather than an English one, but bear in mind that people sometimes post absolute rubbish on forums about what is and is not the law, based on their own misunderstandings of the law, so you may well be given some very poor advice if you go down that route.

Couldn't agree more. None of us here are solicitors.

Nicki

hobo28 wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. None of us here are solicitors.

Actually I am, but not in Northern Ireland :rotfl:

hollydays

At this stage,I am feeling sorry for the Mother. Your family think he "could have done better".What does that mean? She has been reported to social services,on a certain amount of hearsay. I think most partners splitting could say, "he gave her everything,she wanted for nothing",but no doubt she was giving her time as a mother looking after their kids.He chose to believe his partner over his family-why? over the "trying it on with the cousins".No-one believes she is scared of him-well fear takes a lot of forms-not just fear because she has been hit,but fear of what someone could do.I dont think this is a balanced view.THere is toomuch that has not been said.I hope he gets to see his kids again-not too surprised she has run home to mum though.

someonepleasehelpme

hollydays wrote: »

At this stage,I am feeling sorry for the Mother. Your family think he "could have done better".What does that mean? She has been reported to social services,on a certain amount of hearsay. I think most partners splitting could say, "he gave her everything,she wanted for nothing",but no doubt she was giving her time as a mother looking after their kids.He chose to believe his partner over his family-why? over the "trying it on with the cousins".No-one believes she is scared of him-well fear takes a lot of forms-not just fear because she has been hit,but fear of what someone could do.I dont think this is a balanced view.THere is toomuch that has not been said.I hope he gets to see his kids again-not too surprised she has run home to mum though.

You may well feel sorry for her, and true she hasn't been able to put her point across, but I am only asking for advice.

Yes, I have seen marks on the kids and I only have their interests at heart. I don't feel sorry for any mother who treats her children like that.

No-one in my family has been horrible to her, we have all given her the benefit of the doubt. I am not a nasty person, I just think she could have handled it better than running back to her mother when things got a bit tough.

As I say I'm only asking for advice, she has left many members of my family heartbroken not just my brother - my aunt used to have the kids every single weekend without even so much as a thank you and she wasn't even given the chance to say goodbye.

He even went over there to try and sort things out, and not once did any of us say don't bother you're better off without her even if we did feel like saying it. I will stand by my brother no matter what his decision.

I've got nothing to gain from any of this, I just wanted help for my brother.

hobo28

hollydays wrote: »

At this stage,I am feeling sorry for the Mother. Your family think he "could have done better".What does that mean? She has been reported to social services,on a certain amount of hearsay. I think most partners splitting could say, "he gave her everything,she wanted for nothing",but no doubt she was giving her time as a mother looking after their kids.He chose to believe his partner over his family-why? over the "trying it on with the cousins".No-one believes she is scared of him-well fear takes a lot of forms-not just fear because she has been hit,but fear of what someone could do.I dont think this is a balanced view.THere is toomuch that has not been said.I hope he gets to see his kids again-not too surprised she has run home to mum though.

Don't forget we only ever hear one side of the story. So its always wise to bear in mind there are in fact two sides. She could quite genuinely be afraid of him but then again it could be a total pack of lies. We simply don't know.

That said, I like to trust people until proven otherwise so I'm assuming OP is telling what in her eyes is the truth. Right now I can certainly understand OP's hostility towards the mum. However, she's only asking for advice and what use are these forums unless we help where we can.

Scarlett1

someonepleasehelpme wrote: »

No-one in my family has been horrible to her, we have all given her the benefit of the doubt. I am not a nasty person, I just think she could have handled it better than running back to her mother when things got a bit tough.

sounds like none of your family like her and if she knows this and feels that whatever she does will not be right, and what of having threats of social services, might give an inclination to why she fled to NI, you said that her and your brother rowed, has he every got violent with her ? whatever happened has spooked her enough to pack up and seek solace in her family, for her to have said she is frightened of him something must have happened