Cat in a leasehold property

princeofpounds

It's probably impossible for a cat to do anything that a neighbour could hear downstairs.

A cat owner myself, that's not true. Some cat really yowl, and the floors might be thin. Though it's probably unlikely.

Did you have the cat when you first signed the lease? Puts you on stronger ground especially if they were aware.

Doesn't matter legally.

Did the previous leaseholder have a cat (I bet he did) so there's precedence for a cat being accepted within the lease.

This might be interesting evidence, but I'd save it for any official proceedings.

robynlberry

Thanks - I didn't have a cat when I moved in, and it was empty, so I don't know about the previous owner.

I would love to ignore it, but as I have already replied, I think I may have to reply to the most recent one.

Thanks Lazydaisy - I'll add that into my reply. I know - they're being really annoying about it, as if the cat isn't being a nuisance, they can't make me remove it - and even then I will put up a fight!

dodger1

According to Wikipedia a cat is small.

The domestic cat[1][2] (Felis catus[2] or Felis silvestris catus[4]) is a small, usually furry, domesticated, and carnivorous mammal.

However as Werdnal points out it's what the courts decide that matters if it gets that far. For me a cat is definitely a small domestic pet but that's just an opinion. As for making a noise you can't really get much quieter than a cat, a hamster on a wheel for instance is far noisier.

robynlberry

princeofpounds wrote: »

A cat owner myself, that's not true. Some cat really yowl, and the floors might be thin. Though it's probably unlikely.


I'm pretty lucky in that she is quiet - she doesn't yowl or cry, and the only other cause is occasionally excitedly chasing toys, or scratching on her post, or the rug (haven't been able to get her to stop that one!)
But I wouldn't say that any of these things make any more noise than I do normally, and she doesn't make noise anywhere near to the level of a baby for example - and they wouldn't be able to do anything about that!

zzzLazyDaisy

Your neighbour should consider herself lucky....

From "Daily Mail" 8th October, 1946: It was held by Judge Crosthwaite at Liverpool County Court that the cat has a right to prowl. J. E. Withers tenant of a ground floor flat in St. George’s Road, Hightown, Liverpool, sought an injunction against her tenant of the flat above, to keep the cat under control and claimed damages. For Mrs. C.’s cat, it was said, got into Mrs. W. ‘s, fiat ate mincepies and fish, got on to a bed, and scratched the bedpost. For the plaintiff it was contended that a cat was in the same category as a dog, and it was the owner’s duty to keep it under control. For Mrs. C. it was argued that an owner was not liable for a cat’s actions "when trespassing and following its natural propensities." Judgement was given for Mrs. C. with costs.

Edit: on a more useful note, I suggest that you contact Shelter http://www.shelter.org.uk/ they don't just deal with homeless cases, but have a helpline for anyone who is experiencing housing related problems. They may well have access to some legal definition of 'small domestic pet', or other useful advice about the enforceability of such clauses. To be honest I really don't see how they could evict you/terminate your lease while continuing to allow other owners to have cats.

Soot2006

As the owner of a 50kg dog, I would definitely classify a cat as "small" ...

OP, is the term defined at all in your long lease? The *intention* may well have been to mean goldfish and hamsters but if it is not clearly defined then it is irrelevant.

... Alternatively you could pretend you're selling the flat and I'll come round with the dog for a viewing and wear a hoodie and shout loudly how much I like the flat and my drum & bass group will be delighted with the acoustics and I can't wait to move in and I hope no one gives me any grief about the dog because I'll smash down their door.

(for the record, I am actually a petite woman. This is an empty threat ... just annoys me that some neighbours don't look at bigger picture)

Werdnal

I can see this issue from both sides:

If OP can prove her cat does not go out and cause any nuisance, it may help her case, but generally cats do go outside, which is probably why the management company will say that a cat falls outside their criteria. Cats can cause nuisance - soiling communal areas, scratching carpet/woodwork and create noise through fights and "romantic" liaisons! There are also allergy issues in a flat complex, with people living so closely together and "outdoor" cats needing access through the communal spaces to leave and enter the building.

I am a cat owner myself, but understand how a cat might not be allowed in a leasehold block for all the above reasons, and even if OP assured everyone her cat is indoors all the time, they may consider they are setting a precident by allowing her to keep her cat, then opening the floodgates to every other tenant/owner to get one, which will probably want to go out, and may cause any or all of the issues above!

butler_helen

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

Your neighbour should consider herself lucky....

From "Daily Mail" 8th October, 1946: It was held by Judge Crosthwaite at Liverpool County Court that the cat has a right to prowl. J. E. Withers tenant of a ground floor flat in St. George’s Road, Hightown, Liverpool, sought an injunction against her tenant of the flat above, to keep the cat under control and claimed damages. For Mrs. C.’s cat, it was said, got into Mrs. W. ‘s, fiat ate mincepies and fish, got on to a bed, and scratched the bedpost. For the plaintiff it was contended that a cat was in the same category as a dog, and it was the owner’s duty to keep it under control. For Mrs. C. it was argued that an owner was not liable for a cat’s actions "when trespassing and following its natural propensities." Judgement was given for Mrs. C. with costs.

Ours did something similar, neighbour went away, left a window open (:eek:), cat got in and acted like goldilocks for two weeks! he even ate food she had left out and drank from the loo. You'd think I wasn't providing him a 5* service at home

I did apologise and bought sticky trollers for the hair and luckily the neighbour saw the funny side.

robynlberry

Soot2006 - I love that idea!
LazyDaisy - that is a great article - poor woman!

And Werdnal, my cat is a housecat - so she doesn't go outdoors at all (I know this can be controversial, so lets leave it at that - she's a rescue cat!). There are other people with cats in the building that do go outside, so the precedent has already been set..

zzzLazyDaisy

Werdnal wrote: »

they may consider they are setting a precident by allowing her to keep her cat, then opening the floodgates to every other tenant/owner to get one, which will probably want to go out, and may cause any or all of the issues above!

But that's the point. They have already set a precedent by allowing other flat owners to keep cats. They can hardly single out OP for eviction on the grounds that she has breached the terms of the lease (which is their ultimate sanction if OP refuses to get rid of the cat) whilst at the same time continuing to allow other flat owners to continue keeping their cats.