NCL airport

Fatlad

I drove into the a'port, missed the turn for free parking, so pulled over and dropped my friend off. Got snapped and image sent to me from UK Parking Patrol Office

The owner.... Has been isued this notice for the alleged contravention of 'Dropping off / picking up in a restricted area'

28 days... £100... £60 within 14 days.

The standard text about appeal within 28 days with recourse to POPLA if unhappy with the decision.

What next?

Start with appeal?

Coupon-mad

Yep, an appeal without saying who was driving:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=80125&st=20&start=20

HTH, come back when you get a POPLA code or better still, read up on what makes a strong POPLA appeal as soon as you've sent your soft challenge to the scammers.

Fatlad

Ok, will go up,there tomorrow to see what the signs say

Guys_Dad

Fatlad wrote: »

Ok, will go up,there tomorrow to see what the signs say

POPLA say that you must be able to read the signs when driving. Also, were there any lines, yellow or red. See Lead Adjudicator's report on this very point on POPLA web site.

Fatlad

Oh that is perfect. I just went up today. The signs are generic sheets, tied to railings, in fact 2 on a roundabout, with Headline text too small to be read when driving and detail text so small that you need to stop to be able to read it properly.


What should my soft appeal say?

bazster

Hold on one cotton-pickin' moment: the POFA provisions regarding keeper liability apply specifically to parking - as does POPLA. You didn't park, you merely stopped to let someone out of your car. That ain't parking, therefore we are surely still in the pre-POFA, pre-POPLA world of ignore, ignore and ignore some more?

By all means put in your soft appeal, with the long-term aim of bamboozling the PPC and costing them money. But keep your powder dry, admit nothing, tell them nothing, and absolutely do NOT admit to being the driver. Simply state that their claim is rejected in full and if they want to know why they'll have to provide you with a POPLA code.

Then, when it comes to POPLA, make sure you state loud-and-clear inter alia that (i) this is not a parking case and therefore has nothing to do with POPLA and (ii) they are trying to hold you liable as registered keeper, BUT since this is not a parking case then POFA doesn't apply and there is no keeper liability.

Again, be scrupulously careful not to admit who was driving. And then, regardless of the POPLA outcome, ignore everything unless you ever receive genuine court papers (pretty unlikely after you've made a monkey of them at POPLA).

Fatlad

Really? Because the sign did say no parking /no stopping etc. and they told me that by contravening the no stopping bit then I was agreeing to their contract.

So perhaps it is not a parking offence, but it is a charge for stopping to let someone out.

bod1467

But how could POPLA apply?

Parking On Private Land Appeals

bazster

Fatlad wrote: »

Really? Because the sign did say no parking /no stopping etc. and they told me that by contravening the no stopping bit then I was agreeing to their contract.

So perhaps it is not a parking offence, but it is a charge for stopping to let someone out.

But insofar as it's a charge at all, it's a charge to the driver. They have sent you a notice to keeper, but they can't hold the keeper liable: keeper liability applies only to parking, not to any other alleged breach of contract. So if anyone is liable (hint: no-one is) it would be the driver - but they don't know who that is.

Furthermore POPLA is the Parking on Private Land Appeals service, it isn't the Stopping-to-drop-off-a-passenger on Private Land Appeals service.

Fatlad

Just looked at photo of the sign. No parking, stopping, loading or unloading in restricted area.

I can see the arguments, but would prefer the safer option if possible.
What happens if I appeal, along the lines of...

As keeper, i have received this notice, however on visiting the site it is clear to me that the signage is not visible to a person whilst driving furthermore the details regarding contractual obligations are too small to be read from a moving car..

or something similar

So, if POPLA are not a valid arbitration body, where does that leave me?

bazster

Fatlad wrote: »

Just looked at photo of the sign. No parking, stopping, loading or unloading in restricted area.

So what? Firstly, in order to bind anyone into a contract, that sign would've needed to be visible (i) at the entrance to the property and (ii) to someone driving, without them having to stop or get out of their vehicle. You've already told us that such was not the case, therefore the sign fails to bind anyone into a contract.

But, even if it managed to clear those hurdles, the person it would bind into a contract is the driver, not the keeper - and the parking company doesn't know who the driver was.

Furthermore, in order to claim damages from you for breaching any contract, they would have to demonstrate that your breach caused them that loss. So, how much loss did you cause them by stopping where you did? (hint: it's close to zero!)

Fatlad wrote: »

I can see the arguments, but would prefer the safer option if possible.
What happens if I appeal, along the lines of...

As keeper, i have received this notice, however on visiting the site it is clear to me that the signage is not visible to a person whilst driving furthermore the details regarding contractual obligations are too small to be read from a moving car..

or something similar

Don't put anything meaningful in your "appeal" to the parking company. You'll be wasting your time (because they'll reject it anyway), and you will potentially hand them stuff they can use against you. Simply tell them that you reject their claim in full, and to send you a POPLA number.

Fatlad wrote: »

So, if POPLA are not a valid arbitration body, where does that leave me?

There isn't a valid arbitration body. But I'm not saying don't appeal to POPLA (I encourage you to do so since it costs the company money), what I'm saying is that when you do appeal to POPLA you should include in your appeal that (i) you cannot be held liable as the registered keeper because it's not a parking matter and (ii) it is in any case outwith POPLA's jurisdiction because it's not a parking matter.