Deed of Trust and Marriage - do you need a pre-nup'?

cjacko

Hello there,
I have been quoted £210+vat which isn't bad for my local conveyancing solicitor team to create a 'Deed of Trust'
Lets say for argument sake - I have (I don't, but lets say) £90k to put towards my next house.

That is from say £70k equity (as I bought my first 2 houses on my own) And the remaining say £20k is cash deposit.

My girlfriend was going to uni and unemployed throughout the 4 years when I bought my first 2 houses -

We are buying a place together and coupled with my £90k she is putting down say £20k

Now, as I have read - the Deed of Trust in percentage terms will mean I would hopefully get my £90k back, plus say 50% of the house profit should we ever split up and need to sell....my girlfriend would get her £20k plus 50% of the profit from the new joint mortgage house.


The only thing is, we're getting married next year - so is the £210+vat seen as wasteful?
Does a Deed of Trust stand in court for both unmarried couples and also married? That's the only grey area I cant find out about and the Solicitor we're using said she will refer me to the Matrimonial department (a different dept. than that of the Deed of Trust!! Weird?!)

As soon as I put the ring on the wedding day - I wouldn't want to give away 50/50 of everything I have worked hard for (and built up myself) My girlfriend is understanding of this

My parents are currently (very unfortunately) getting divorced - so I worry what the future may hold, as you never know! Many thanks

cjacko

I have just realised - a pre-marital agreement (aka pre-nuptial agreement) is drawned up before a marriage begins.

So seeing as our wedding is in a year, why would we do a Deed of Trust - can we just do a pre-marital agreement?! Its so confusing!

As per my original question, im led to think a Deed of Trust is solely for unmarried couples or living together couples. So a pre-martial agreement is needed (but then, does that protect your equity/deposit whilst we live UN-married?!) Many thanks

Mattygroves2

Per nuptial agreements are not valid in the UK so they won't really help you. Once you're married then the starting point on breakup is usually 50/50 but that can be varied for various factors such as length of the marriage and children but if you are married for a reasonable length of time then you can expect to to give your wife 50% of everything including your pension if you divorce.

If you want to keep your assets to yourself then don't get married.

antrobus

Mattygroves2 wrote: »

Per nuptial agreements are not valid in the UK .....

Don't know about that.

Prenuptial agreements have been recognised as enforceable under British divorce law for the first time, in a supreme court ruling

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/oct/20/prenuptial-agreement-enforced-uk-law

cjacko

Thanks a lot. Yes a pre-marital agreement (aka pre-nuptial agreement) does seem court friendly

Pre-marital agreements

Of course no one wants their marriage to break down, but a Pre-Marital Agreement acts as an insurance policy if the worst should happen.
Following the case called “Radmacher”, decided by the Supreme Court in October 2010, “the court should give effect to a nuptial agreement that is entered in to by each party with the full appreciation of its implications unless in the circumstances prevailing it would not be fair to hold the parties to their agreement”. Pre and Post-Marital Agreements now hold much more weight in the English courts than previously.

*Elphaba*

What Marty said. The longer you're married the less likely the Pre-nup is to be upheld. Especially if you have children and your wife is the primary carer, you can rip up the Pre-nup as the children's needs will be of upmost consideration.

Without taking the time to read it - I suspect the case that upheld a Pre-nup was either one with no children, one where the marriage was considered short (eg under 5 years) and / or a big money case in which there was plenty of money to go around and deciding how to share it out wouldn't have add anyone homeless.

If you are that worried about protecting your investment, don't get married. If you go on a divorce based forum (eg, wikivorce) that is what you will be told - even by people who have taken the plunge the second time and are happy in their current marriage.

zzzLazyDaisy

The deed of trust and the pre-nup are two different things.

The deed of trust shows the shares in which the house is held, legally and beneficially. If you simply buy the house as tenants in common with no deed of trust, then the presumption is that you each have equal shares in the house.

The pre-nup means that she isn't entitled to your share of the house in the even of a split, but in that scenario your 'share' would be 50%.

In any event, once you are married things start to change. In the early part of the marriage (say 12 - 18 months, possibly even 2 years) if you separate, you would normally each take only what you brought to the marriage. Although if you lived together for a long time before that or already had children together, even that might not be a given.

In a longer marriage, or as you have children, or if one of you becomes disabled and unable to work, then everything is viewed as joint matrimonial assets and the starting point is 50/50. From there the courts can adjust shares according to the needs of the parties and any children and what is considered to be just and equitable. As the marriage goes on and circumstances change, the pre-nup is likely to carry much less weight. Similarly the division of shares in the property are less likely to be enforced especially if there are children to consider.

One other point - if you buy as tenants in common, do remember to make wills and take out life insurances to protect each other. If (heaven forbid) one of you dies before you marry, without a will, their share will automatically pass to the next of kin, which could leave the survivor not only bereaved but also homeless.

EDIT - you are probably better off not getting married until you are able to embrace the concept of 'our money' rather than 'mine' and 'hers'.

cjacko

Nice one thanks, I am not going to do either deed of trust or the post marriage agreement based on I should be more trusting and I am getting married! many thanks

retepetsir

If you're getting married and have been in a relationship that long, do you really need to?