Urgent advice required: Car related

TVR

Firstly, I'd like to say hello, I'm Nick, from York. I was advised of this site by a work colleague after he heard about my problems with my car. I'm hopeful someone can point me in the right direction. Here goes:

I bought my TVR Chimaera 4 litre from Drivestyle Horseless Carriages in June 2012. The car was advertised on Pistonheads for £7995, with 1 previous owner, and ready to drive away. I viewed it immediately, test drove it, checked the chassis on a ramp (I was in training to be a mechanic at the time), and put a deposit down. I was assured by the salesman that it was a cracking car, and was sometimes used by the deputy manager (Phil Sunman) to get to and from work in.

I collected the car about 2 weeks after paying the deposit, and signed the paper work, which I noticed had 'no warranty given or implied'. I overlooked this at the time, to my cost!

The morning after I got home, I went to open the car and the battery was flat. I got the AA out who said it has a battery drain, which was further confirmed by my friend who is an auto electrician. I immediately rang Drivestyle to inform them, and they said they'd see what they could do. The next issue I had was a failing wiper motor, which was an annoyance more than a major issue, but needed rectifying. Following this, the car failed to start when it was hot, yet another issue. I delivered my car to Drivestyle one afternoon for inspection, and was told they couldn't find an alarm fault or battery drain, and didn't have time to fix the wiper motor or the hot start issue, but could book the car in. I agreed to do this, and took the car home. The car then failed to start once again at a petrol station, and upon letting it cool and getting it back to college, where I was studying motorsport, my tutors decided to have a look at it for me. They quickly diagnosed that the car had had a minor engine fire, and that there was corrosive extinguisher powder all over the V of the engine (the car has a V8). They also noticed several melted ignition components. At this point I was pretty hacked off, and made a very stern but polite phone call to Drivestyle informing them they WOULD be fixing my car in its entirety. They denied knowledge of the fire, but agreed to check it out. I delivered my car to them, and left it with them for over two weeks, in which time I kept in touch with their progress via email. Simultaneously to these issues, I had contacted the Citizens Advice Bureau. Unbeknown to me, they forwarded the issue to North Yorkshire Trading Standards, as it is a criminal offence to knowingly sell a fire damaged car without informing the new owner.

After a couple of weeks I was told my car was ready to collect. Eagerly I took an afternoon off work and got a lift to Harrogate to collect it. I was made to sign a disclaimer saying that the car had never had a warranty and was 'sold as seen'. I wasn't given any option on this as the garage had my keys (I have a witness to this). I went out to the car, and the battery was flat, AGAIN. At this point I rang Mobile Music, an alarm specialist who Drivestyle had contracted to fix the alarm drain. Now, I have dealt with Mark at Mobile Music before, and he has always been very helpful and knowledgeable, as well as professional. He stated that Drivestyle had not mention ANY alarm or battery problems, and that they'd simply been contracted to recode my alarm fobs. I drove across Harrogate to their workshop, where one of their technicians (also a Chimaera owner), had a look at the car, and informed me that the alarm siren often suffers from water ingress, and therefore short circuits and drains the battery. He disconnected it for me, and told me to see if it worked; it did.....SORT OF (read on!). At this point I informed Drivestyle I was unhappy with their work, and would be having the car independently inspected by Steve Darvill of SDAutotec. Steve has over 20 years experience of working on TVRs, and after hearing my plight said he'd fully inspect the car at no charge. He, and the mechanic from a neighbouring MOT station, took 2 hours out of their day to inspect my car. They found a host of additional issues on top of what I had already found. The fire damage was still present and had not been touched, there were worn ball joints (an MOT failure, and the car passed its MOT on the day I got it....HOW?), leaking shock absorber (MOT failure), worn cam shaft, misfire due to corroded plug lead shrouds....I could go on! Steve set about repairing the damage, and made me two invoices; one was for myself, for things that Drivestyle would not have known about, such as the Cam (I was being fair here, TVRs over 50000 miles can suffer from wear and tear on the cam shafts, and this car had. I didn't feel it was fair to charge Drivestyle for this); he also made one that he felt Drivestyle should cough up for, for things such as the fire damage, shock absorber, ball joint, plug lead shrouds, gaskets that were heat damaged/corroded etc. I got all the parts back in bags as evidence, along with numerous photos of the car been worked on. The overall bill came to £1684.48, with £869.64 of this to be paid up by Drivestyle.

By this point I'd had the car two months, and Kevin Stace of NY Trading Standards had taken over where the CAB had left off. He took statements from me, and Steve Darvill, and collected the evidence. I had also pursued Steve Williams, Managing Director of Drivestyle, who asked to meet with me. Me and my father went to the meeting, and I produced all the damaged parts in this meeting, as well as the photos Steve Darvill had taken. Mr Williams was, at first, extremely arrogant and pompous; by the end of the meeting he was a bumbling, stuttering wreck, as my father had challenged him on many chemical points regarding the extinguisher powder (don't take on a science teach of 33 years in a chemical debate!!! :rotfl:). He called in one of his technicians to look at the parts, who confirmed they looked damaged. I was told he'd be in touch about settling out of court. Sure enough, Mr Williams did eventually get in touch, offering me just over £100 for my troubles, stating that the extinguished powder was not corrosive and could be left to sit on my engine block. As you can guess, I replied in short shrift to his insulting offer of redress! I gave full control of the case to Kevin, who said there was a fair chance of a criminal prosecution due to the two main breaches in criminal law, these being a "restrictive statement" (the 'no warranty given or implied'), and also the selling of a car that had knowingly had a fire, with no mention to the new owner. The case dragged on, with numerous phone calls and interviews, but in the end Kevin's superior at North Yorkshire Trading Standards decided there was insufficient evidence to guarantee a conviction. He did state that I would stand a reasonable chance in Civil Court, as Criminal and Civil courts are two very different things.

Now, Drivestyle has since changed hands, with some of the staff their buying out Steve Williams due to him having given them a laughable reputation in the TVR Community. Phil Sunman, the deputy manager, is now joint owner, and has spoken to me at length on the phone. I have stated that I really don't want to take him to court, as at the end of the day he and his business partner would be paying for a crime not committed by themselves, HOWEVER in the eyes of the law, a LTD Company is held accountable, no matter who owns it. They agreed they could see my point of view, and that they would look into it. After some badgering from me, Phil said he has spoken to Steve Williams, and needs to speak to him again, BUT that they expect him to personally cough up, as it was his leadership and deception that landed them in this mess.

My question is, where do I stand? What should my next move be? Any advice is greatly appreciated and I look forward to your ideas!

Thanks,

Nick

forgotmyname

Letter before action giving them 7 or 14 days to pay up or you will take them to court.

TVR

Can I take them to court though? As the company has changed hands?

mo786uk

Yes as logn as they do not liquidate and closed down you can pursue the company. I am surrpised they are holding out for the £800 quid considering the potential reputational damage.

Research the Sale of Goods Act 1979 - all you have to show is that the car was either not of satisfactory quality or not fit for purpose. You may still be able to 'reject' the car - if not claim back for all the major faults - especially the one that would have been an MOT failure.

However, it is oen thing winning the court case its another getting the money.

fivetide

Sounds like slopey shoulders if one of the chaps is still there. Presumably a director of both firms?

no_summer_here

I thought about a TVR Cerbera, but after a search on the net I came across a blog, with a new fault every week. One entry was after giving their partner a lift to the rail station, the owner drove home to find that he could not get out of either door, He was in his pyjamas !

ILW

It's a TVR.
Nothing more to say really.

no_summer_here

From a litigious point of view the Citizens Advice and Trading Standards staff you have spoken to know much more than I do about the law as it affects retail purchases.

As you have trained to be a mechanic I would assume that you know TVR never fitted ABS and will have mastered the dark art of cadence braking.

You also will have bought and fitted a fire extinguisher.
You say that the car was advertised for £7995, I take it that after laughing in their face you offered £6000 and settled in between.

As a newcomer to this forum if you go back to the index and go to Matched Betting, you will have your £800 risk free by the end of Wimbledon.

almillar

The ex-owner refused to pay out from the company. The new owners say they're pursuing the ex-owner to get him to pay personally - I don't see him doing that.
If you want to be kind to the business then ask them to pay a large part of the £869.64 rather than the full amount.

Strider590

Meh...
I feel for you buddy, but it's a TVR, what did you expect?

The problem is they're basically kitcars that got bought by people with lots of money and no mechanical sense. They require careful ownership and regular maintenance, not something your average wannabe middle class "I fancy a sportscar" 40 something is going to pay much attention to...
And then because there aren't any dealerships as such, they get taken to the local Crapfit for servicing, ending up poorly serviced, running on low quality brakes and tyres, incorrect tracking and the wrong grade of engine oil.
Not to mention the teenage technicians taking it out for doughnuts and handbrake turns in the nearest carpark (a note for future reference).

I hope you get something sorted, but as the owner of a Westfield kitcar, I fear if you want it done properly your going to have to do it yourself and me personally I wouldn't let the incompetent morons near it again with a barge pole.

PS - the fire was probably the fuel lines that run over the top of the engine, they perish due to heat, they should be replaced regularly. Also fit a battery cutout switch and get a small fire extinguisher.

artbaron

TVR wrote: »

Now, Drivestyle has since changed hands, with some of the staff their buying out Steve Williams due to him having given them a laughable reputation in the TVR Community. Phil Sunman, the deputy manager, is now joint owner, and has spoken to me at length on the phone. I have stated that I really don't want to take him to court, as at the end of the day he and his business partner would be paying for a crime not committed by themselves, HOWEVER in the eyes of the law, a LTD Company is held accountable, no matter who owns it. They agreed they could see my point of view, and that they would look into it. After some badgering from me, Phil said he has spoken to Steve Williams, and needs to speak to him again, BUT that they expect him to personally cough up, as it was his leadership and deception that landed them in this mess.

Unfortunately for you you've had to deal with cowboys and now you're dealing with idiots. On buying out the company all assets and liabilities are part of the deal so the situation with your car hasn't changed. They may want to pursue avenues to which they have no legal recourse (getting the cowboy who sold you the car to stump up the money) but that's their business. As far as you're concerned your situation has not changed, you were dealing with the company then and you're dealing with the company now. Tell these jokers they have 14 days to cough up in full or you'll take them to court.

I've actually looked at a few cars from Horseless Carriages on the web so thanks the heads up about them.