NHS pay band & associated authority question

Tenyearstogo

And people wonder why the NHS is in a state?

"It should be an 8a post after much research and dialogue with colleagues, but the job description lists it as a 6"

Time to do this as an admin person while the nurses on the wards are on band 5 and the HCA's are on band 3's, if they're lucky.

Coraline

LannieDuck wrote: »

Ahh, ok. So your manager agrees you're doing too much and work that is outside of your remit. So does s/he also agree that you can stop doing some of it?

Only after I brought it up. The odd thing is that the bulk of requests came from her and another director in the first place!

Yes, it seems that I can stop doing some of it. In theory. What I am somewhat distressed about is how I was talked over and dismissed in my concerns.

This is a case of where someone in over their head winds up blaming others, I can say being very objective about the sitation.

Constant blame comes down to the lower level managers and directors about things that she was supposedly not informed about, or discussed about, or approved...yet we all have the email and paper trails that prove otherwise.

You wind up second guessing your sanity by going back and looking at your emails and see in plain sight that everything was done by protocol.

polgara

Unfortunately thats the result of restructures/new organisations. It takes ages for it all to settle down (usually just as some bright spark in government decides yet another reshuffle is warranteed). With new organisations there are hundreds of emails flying about and it is very easy to miss email trails. If it continues then unfortunately you've also got a poor manager. The trick is, as with many jobs, managing your manager. You need to be clear about what you have been asked to do, what you are prioritising, what you will/cannot do and how you have communicated that, what support you need. Its a tightrope - being clear and flexible without being a jobsworth. Plus - the NHS, rightly or wrongly, runs massively on goodwill so you will sometimes take on additional work as and when

Coraline

Very true...but what we're finding is that it's not just email trails, it's things that we agreed to face-to-face in meetings as well! And in instances shown hard copy papers for approval with signatures, then backtracking and saying "I never did/agreed to that!"

Or they're in the Outlook calendar (for months) and the question comes back "How did this get in there?"

Or it's a phone-call with a letter confirming something authorised, then claiming no knowledge of it!

I think the best thing going for us right now is that there's a psychiatric crisis centre only a couple floors down from us. I think we should just move the whole office in there.

FBaby

Totally agree with polgara. That's just how it is right now and this is all due to people at the top thinking restructures are the best thing going. They don't have a clue about the impact their decision ultimately has on the whole system.

When you first start in the NHS, you are horrified, when you've been there for many years, you just get on with it and accept that you can only do your best under the circumstances. The priority is to perform as well as is possible while remaining sane. People like to think that being an NHS manager is a walk in the park. It often is a demanding and stressful job, evolving with little structure and guidance yet expecting high level of work within tight deadlines. You are expected to get on with it when you don't even really know what the 'it' is. If you expect clarity, you are bound to be constantly on edge. You have to grow thick skin not let it get to you. Many can't cope.

By the time the organisation finally gets some stability, clarity and can provide some tangeable outputs, someone comes along and jiggles it all again

FBaby

I meant to say that your manager's reaction was very predictable for someone whose been in the system for too long! To read behind it: 'prioritise your work and get on with it and don't pester me for clarity, I don't have any to give you'.

polgara

I agree - I've working in the NHS for almost 20 years now and I've never know anything like the amount of instability thats happening/been happening. For instance in that time I've worked for

District Headquarters(was merged)
Health Authority (what it became)
moved to another area
Health Authority (was broken up)
Primary Care Group (what it became and was then merged)
Primary Care Trust (what it became)
moved to
Strategic Health Authority (merged)
moved to
Acute Hospital
moved
Care Trust (merged with a Community Trust)

When I have said merged - some of those have been formal, Secretary of State type situations and others have been a pseudo merger which can be even more confusing. At all these times other organisations above and below have been merging, breaking up or simply ceasing. Staff don't know if they are coming or going etc

Coraline

FBaby wrote: »

The issue is that the model you are sharing here is very difficult to interpret unless you have been trained to do so. For example you will notice that band 6 to possible band 8c state that the role involve highly complex sensitive contentious info, so that would be expected as much of a band 6 post than an 8c one.

Much of the difference in banding relates to what is considered highly complex as opposed to complex 'only'. That distinction is specific and not so obvious to someone who hasn't been trained.

budget; band 8a-c refers to being holder of a departmental budget, not specific areas of that department, and that would be expected to be a lot more than £100K.

In your first post, you mention that the budget was delegated? You seem to refer to the authority to authorise invoice. That is very different to having the responsibility for that budget. For instance, if you were to massively mess up, say authorise a payment of £1M instead of £100K, who would be disciplined for it, you or your manager? Would they remain responsible for the role they delegated? Who would ultimately be dismissed?

I know you think I am picking on you, but that's not my intention. It's just that you seem very confident in your belief that your job should be banded higher. You might be right, but in the scheme of things, it would be highly unlikely and considering your lack of experience of the NHS, it is much more likely that it is your lack of understanding of the system that is leading to the confusion. Saying that, good luck. It would be unheard of for someone to start at a band 4 and end up at a band 8a within months, so I would be very happy to eat my words if that was the case and congratulate you on your abilities.

Hi Fbaby,

Sorry for the knee-jerk reaction by ignoring you, I've been snapping a lot recently online and off...it's been tough. I apologise, you're no longer ignored!

To clarify (I learned a bit more today) I would be the holder now of 3 separate budgets. My own personal budget, a inter-departamental budget (the 100k one) and now another budget. I would have all authority to sign/deny requests and determine to where the funds should go. So it's not just signing off the paperwork.

To make a long story short, If I were to screw up something with this budget, I would be the one who'd be galloping up diarrhea drive without a saddle.

Yes, in the scheme of things I agree--I'm not going to go charging in there and demand to be an 8a--I'm going to wait a year with NHS experience under my belt then produce all the evidence of what I've done and accomplished.

But we do have new people coming in...right now forms are going up to hire another 8a who's never been in the NHS before.

Coraline

FBaby wrote: »

I meant to say that your manager's reaction was very predictable for someone whose been in the system for too long! To read behind it: 'prioritise your work and get on with it and don't pester me for clarity, I don't have any to give you'.

It's really unbelievable--she accused me of going out and trying to develop strategy and not being in the office for one day, when she's the one who said that I should go on that trip to learn about strategy!

Then I get an email the next day about a brochure another branch has produced and asked me how soon "I can get this this out and to the printers." I replied, I can't...I'm too overworked at the moment, this is something I will tackle when I'm fully into my role!

Then today she accused me of wanting to run out of the gates and work on the brochure and I shouldn't because I'm too busy!

LOL you just have to laugh sometimes!

Coraline

Update to anybody who's interested:

Finally got a one-to-one meeting with the manager and after countless sub-meetings with colleagues in Finance and Contracting she said that "no that's not was I was talking about I don't expect you do to that, that would be silly...."

The management accountant is about to rip his hair out.

This job is going to be interesting....