NHS pay band & associated authority question

GrannyKate

Are you in one of the new NHS organisations which have replaced PCTs? Ask the manager for a team meeting to discuss responsibilities - would everyone be prepared to support this. Get HR involved as well. I do not think this is about getting paid more or upgraded - it seems to be about you finding yourself doing a role for which you are not trained and where you are not confident. The latest reorganisations have thrown the NHS systems and processes into chaos and many people are uncertain of what the future holds and are just trying to keep going and hope some clarity emerges.

The NHS really does not work to closely defined roles and responsibilities and you have to be prepared to be flexible in a way that is not found in some other areas of work.

Coraline

GrannyKate wrote: »

Are you in one of the new NHS organisations which have replaced PCTs? Ask the manager for a team meeting to discuss responsibilities - would everyone be prepared to support this. Get HR involved as well. I do not think this is about getting paid more or upgraded - it seems to be about you finding yourself doing a role for which you are not trained and where you are not confident. The latest reorganisations have thrown the NHS systems and processes into chaos and many people are uncertain of what the future holds and are just trying to keep going and hope some clarity emerges.

The NHS really does not work to closely defined roles and responsibilities and you have to be prepared to be flexible in a way that is not found in some other areas of work.

Yes, new org that replaced an SHA. We ( trust me on this) have no HR leads, and the MD is completely over his/her head. Save for specific thing like FOI, my experience and career easily would score me into the 8 or even 9 band.

The situation of going from a 4 to 6 (in a week) was indeed unusual and kept hush. It's a case where I applied for something lower than what I have done for years, got it, then the director immediately put me into the other role.

I know it sounds confusing, my head is still spinning!

Coraline

addendum...not just my experience and qualifications, but the duties they expect me to do are at minimum 8 level.

harrys_dad

Coraline wrote: »

addendum...I joined a union last week because I started seeing warning signs that things are very mismanaged but I don't know if I have the right to contact them now...I'm still waiting for my paper work!

If you have filled the forms in you have the right to contact them. It may be however that they decide that your problems predate your membership application. You won't know until you ask.

GrannyKate

Sounds like a right mess as everyone expected post 1 April 2013. As you no doubt realise nothing is hush hush in the NHS as everybody knows everything. Assume HR is outsourced to a new Commissioning Support Unit unless you are part of NHS Commissioning Board. SHA's were abolished and not replaced although their functions were moved to several different bodies.

It is the job role that will be graded not you personally so it does not matter what additional experience you have as there will be a fixed pot of money within the budget for the post. Firstly you need a job description write one yourself if your manager does not produce one - there are ways of writing these to link to NHS Agenda for Change criteria and union should help. Find a colleague in a similar role in another Trust and ask for a copy of theirs. Then ask for the Job Description to be graded.
There have been massive cuts in management budgets for NHS and structures have been dismantled but the reductions in red tape are only political rhetoric as the rules and regulations have not gone anywhere and new organisations are still having to get this work done however they can. It is very unlikely that you would get a grade 8a job without NHS experience of several years but it is a strange world out there at the moment.

Coraline

GrannyKate wrote: »

Sounds like a right mess as everyone expected post 1 April 2013. As you no doubt realise nothing is hush hush in the NHS as everybody knows everything. Assume HR is outsourced to a new Commissioning Support Unit unless you are part of NHS Commissioning Board. SHA's were abolished and not replaced although their functions were moved to several different bodies.

Exactly! It's utter chaos, nobody really knows what's going on. HR is up high up at HQ over seeing our local divisions hundreds of miles away and don't seem to know what they were doing.

Half the people in my team came from the old SHA, about a quarter came in from various agencies, and a quarter (including myself) got recruited by an employment agency to fill certain roles at the last minute.

GrannyKate wrote: »

It is the job role that will be graded not you personally so it does not matter what additional experience you have as there will be a fixed pot of money within the budget for the post. Firstly you need a job description write one yourself if your manager does not produce one - there are ways of writing these to link to NHS Agenda for Change criteria and union should help. Find a colleague in a similar role in another Trust and ask for a copy of theirs. Then ask for the Job Description to be graded.
There have been massive cuts in management budgets for NHS and structures have been dismantled but the reductions in red tape are only political rhetoric as the rules and regulations have not gone anywhere and new organisations are still having to get this work done however they can. It is very unlikely that you would get a grade 8a job without NHS experience of several years but it is a strange world out there at the moment.

The way all this happened is that I was hired (after looking for work for like 8 months) at the last minute externally as a band 4, generally a more clerical admin position--I didn't mind, I thought it was great and I need the work.

The director immediately (like within a week) caught wind of my experience and saw my CV (many years of high level marketing, managing people, PR experience, along with HR and Finance, etc) and moved me to the PR side, band 6.

This is where things get really sticky--I'm still doing the old band 4 job in entierty, AND as acting as a PA to someone else (that's the half a job I referred to previously) and now the pressure and expectations to do this PR job full time are mounting. And our HR people are completely clueless in how to even HIRE someone to help me out--we've been trying to fill my old job for 2 months now.

I'm scared to ask for revaluation right now and rebanding as I'm so new. Like you mentioned, from all my research and talking to external colleagues band 8 and 9s all tend to have some NHS experience, but this is not the case in our department as one of the chief directors has never worked in health before and he's a band 9.

And I'm not fully into the role yet....However in a year when I demonstrate a track record of building a PR program from scratch (and am fully inducted into legalities like FOI and implications of multi-departamental budgets) then I think it would be a much easier thing to negotiate....

Coraline

harrys_dad wrote: »

If you have filled the forms in you have the right to contact them. It may be however that they decide that your problems predate your membership application. You won't know until you ask.

Luckily things move so slow right now I can put off this issue for another month...I think.

I'm worried about the legal implications--I've worked around the block (the world lol) in many types of organisations and know that signing off invoices without some sort of guidance or rules to what's allowed, or what spending allowances is not a good idea! If the poo hits the fan, who do they go back to? the person who signed off the orders!!!

LannieDuck

You can definitely request an AFC regrade at the place I work. However, given little time you've been in post, I might suggest you wait a bit and do it in a few months time.

Are you able to do the work that they want you to? If you can, it would put you in a good position when it comes to the regrade.

ohreally

You should contact your trade union for advice as this situation is becoming complex. In terms of matching your role, the matching panel will almost certainly have to consider hybrid matching and you may need to complete a JAQ (job analasis questionaire), for this you will need the help of someone who knows their way around the job evaluation procedures, (JAQ's are a PITA) as a poorly constructed document will fail to recognise and reward your responsibility (and accountability). Management won't help with this.

Phone and speak with your tu branch secretary about best way for you to progress.

Coraline

LannieDuck wrote: »

You can definitely request an AFC regrade at the place I work. However, given little time you've been in post, I might suggest you wait a bit and do it in a few months time.

Are you able to do the work that they want you to? If you can, it would put you in a good position when it comes to the regrade.

Yes--I'm more than qualified to do this type of work--but currently I'm doing multiple jobs. I need an assistant to handle the hands-on portion so I can focus on the strategic, which is my background and what they want me to do.

As of now, I cannot cope with the workload or stress as I'm spread so thin--it's the sheer volume of it that's the problem.

Basically in my "team" there are 2 people, including myself, doing the work of 5 full time equivalents for the past 9 weeks. I'm far from alone in this predicament...