Having a new patio laid and not sure it's being done correctly

moneybunny123

I'm currently having my patio relaid by a builder and his two helpers. Before he started the job, he quoted me 4 days labour, but then later said it may increase but his labour would cost "no more than £600". (We've bought all the slabs, cement, sand, etc)

He's been on the job now since yesterday morning. However, yesterday he didn't get much done as he didn't order enough hardcore or cement so I know that him and his mate spent a lot of the day hanging round.

Last night, my husband and I noticed that the new flags were coming up to just one brick below the damp proof course. We googled and found out that it should really be two bricks.

We asked him to start again. So today, at more cost to me (a skip and a breaker) he started to dig down deeper. After a couple of hours they gave up and said it was futile and that the best they would be able to manage was to have the flags one brick down from the top of the DPC, with the patio sloping away from the house. In addition, they also agreed to leave a 2 inch "drainage gap". The front of our house (path) is also only 1 brick below the DMP and wasn't laid by this guy but was like that when we bought the house. We've had no damp issues round the front.

But my worry is that this fella is cutting corners. Should he indeed be digging down much further and putting the proper base of hardcore in to still get the slabs a full 2 bricks below?

He and his mates have been on the job for the best part of 2 days (including lots of breaks and trips out). If I pulled him off the job could we refuse to pay him on the basis he's not done the correct job? We never received a written quote and
I've not signed anything.

They don't even appear to be doing it properly (I'm no expert). There is no string with anchors showing the level. They're just doing a bit at a time - digging, whackering, more whackering, laying.

It's making me feel sick! The last thing I want is to upset the guy - he seems like a nice guy. But we're talking over a grand's worth of materials here and I'm not sure he's doing it right. Can someone offer some advice, please??

warmhands.coldheart

Was he specific in his scope of works or just quoted for "Laying patio Slabs" which in effect is what he is doing. Always try to get a detailed scope of works so everyone knows exactly what is expected of them..

moneybunny123

He wasn't specific in as much as he gave a detailed job description. But he knew he was expected to remove the old patio, excavate, and lay a new base. If building regs stipulate that a patio has to be 150mm below the DPC, then surely as a builder in the trade he should know that and budget the time and tools for that? He clearly has not.

Leif

I think you should contact the consumer advice people, the name changes so often I've no idea what they are now called, but they can be quite good, although they tend to be brief and to the point, no doubt due to funding and time constraints. If you are sure they are doing it wrong, then I'd be tempted to ask them to stop, and not pay them for labour as it will have to be redone. The absence of a written agreement does not help, and might be an issue.

stebiz

It needs to be 2 bricks so it doesn't bridge the damp cause. This can be for a number of reasons but splash back is one of them, even with sloping. He is right though you can have a drainage channel. As for the depth of the hardcore that really does depend on what weight you are going to put on it. If it is just a rear patio the depth doesn't have to be as deep as the front, which might have a car on it.

The drainage channel isn't the end of the world.



It can look nice although it does make me wonder just how hard the patio is. I filled 2 skips digging my patio out. I then put the stone down and got the guys in just to lay the flags.

moneybunny123

Leif wrote: »

If you are sure they are doing it wrong, then I'd be tempted to ask them to stop, and not pay them for labour as it will have to be redone. The absence of a written agreement does not help, and might be an issue.

We are sure they're doing it wrong and have asked them to stop. They've removed all their tools and belongings and are demanding to be paid for work done so far. We're refusing to pay them as we've already paid for materials that will now have to be skipped as the work hasn't been done right - not to mention having to pay someone to undo their own dodgy work.

When you say the absence of a written agreement could be an issue - do you mean for us or for him? No written or signed agreement - surely he doesn't have a leg to stand on? His work doesn't comply with regulations and he hasn't done the work he promised.

Leif

I was referring to you. The fact that it is not done to building regs is in your favour, obviously. But you need to prove it in case someone goes to the small claims court. Could the local Building Control Officer visit and write a short 'report'? When you say he hasn't done the work promised, that is your word against his. I'm not disbelieving you, but for the SCC paper is proof.

If he has done the work incorrectly, you are by law allowed to get someone competent to redo the work, and charge him your costs. But by law you must first give him a chance to rectify his work, and do it properly. If he is grossly incompetent then you can argue that you had to get someone else in. And if he does not agree that the work is wrong, that probably counts in your favour. But you can't just say you don't like it. Oh, and all communication with him should be by letter sent signed for i.e. recorded. That way you can prove you sent them, otherwise he'll say he didn't get them.

Again, Trading Standards or equivalent can advise. You really do need proper advice as to how to proceed rather than advice from a stranger who might be wrong!