Roofing - should I go with cheaper quote and is it legal ?

Skint_yet_Again

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated, sorry if its in the wrong place

I am trying to save some money on roofing work which needs doing on my home:

quote 1. (local trader vat registered ) remove 2 chimney stacks joint with neighbours to just below roof line, batten and tile over, SCAFFOLDING and remove rubbish 10 year guarantee on all work £1659

quote 2. (friends B-in-L self employed) remove 2 chimney stacks joint with neighbours to just below roof line, batten and tile over, NO SCAFFOLDING, remove rubbish
£600

I don't know the first thing about building/roofing. Is it legal to have no scaffolding? Would we the homeowners be liable if anything was dropped/damage caused/public injury ?

Thanks

aggypanthus

I cant answer re scaff, but get a 3rd quote. You might get someone else who is below the Vat limit, so wont charge you VAT, and save you dosh that way.
If you go with the cheap guy, ensure he has public liability ins.

KennyH1

I assume you've checked if you need planning permission for the removal of the stack?

Also I assume you have talked to your neighbour about this and got approval to remove theirs etc.

Skint_yet_Again

KennyH1 wrote: »

I assume you've checked if you need planning permission for the removal of the stack?

Also I assume you have talked to your neighbour about this and got approval to remove theirs etc.

Thanks for the replies

Yes Kenny you assume correctly:

The council have confirmed no planning permission or building regs required and we are not in a conservation area.

The neighbours are in agreement and between us we have phoned about 10 roofers and these are the only 2 who have come out/got back to us with a quote. Quote 1 was a company called out by the neighbours. Quote 2 was from my friends B-in-L.

The main concern is about not having scaffolding.

Furts

I will assume there is no safe method of work, ladders are being used, men are working on a roof with no edge protection, no working platform, no handrails, no guards...

If an inspector from HSE saw your second option your work would be closed down. Then B-in-L would be hit with the costs of an investigation and the subsequent Court Costs. HSE delight in prosecuting small fry because they cause many problems and are unlikely to offer a defence against a case from HSE.

Also ask what protection in terms of insurance and public liability is being offered by B-in-L.

Finally, why are you knowingly considering endangering peoples lives? That is yours, your neighbours, the respective families and the general public?

Skint_yet_Again

Furts wrote: »

I will assume there is no safe method of work, ladders are being used, men are working on a roof with no edge protection, no working platform, no handrails, no guards...

I have no idea... that's why I am here. - not being a builder or roofer myself that is the reason I am asking for advice on this forum.

It is the roofer who has said scaffolding is not required. Myself and the neighbours are concerned about the safety of this and this is why I am here and questioning the lack of scaffolding.... otherwise I would have just said stuff it and gone for the £600 quote if I didn't give a !!!!

I have now googled HSE and will look at this further

ian103

Why don't you get your BIL to get a scaffolding quote to provide the minimum working platform / safety measures that will be required. You could always ask BIL how he intends to safely carry out the works (he possibly thinks he's doing you a favour by saving the scaffold) he may be planning to use roof ladders or similar but what stops him falling off?(unless he can attach a fall arrest lanyard somewhere?) It may also be worth explaining you are splitting the costs with the neighbour.

You could employ the scaffolder directly saving a few quid.

vaio

ian103 wrote: »

Why don't you get your BIL to get a scaffolding quote to provide the minimum working platform / safety measures that will be required. You could always ask BIL how he intends to safely carry out the works (he possibly thinks he's doing you a favour by saving the scaffold) he may be planning to use roof ladders or similar but what stops him falling off?(unless he can attach a fall arrest lanyard somewhere?) It may also be worth explaining you are splitting the costs with the neighbour.

You could employ the scaffolder directly saving a few quid.

No doubt the roofer has done a risk assessment and decided that the job can be done safely from ladders. Without specific site & equipment knowledge I struggle to see how you can question his assessment.

As to "what stops him falling off? (unless he can attach a fall arrest lanyard somewhere?)" at the risk of being flippant, it might be a fall arrest system or it might be the innate skill that roofers seem to have for not falling off ladders. The same skill is also useful for not falling off scaffolding too.

OP... I'd say the last thing you want to do is start providing scaffolding or otherwise getting involved in their safety matters as it could open a can of liability worms should an accident happen.

Either go with the cheap price and leave it to the experienced professional roofers to provide their safe working environment in line with their risk assessment or go with the expensive quote and again leave it to the experienced professional roofers to provide their safe working environment in line with their risk assessment

Leif

Is the cheaper one an experienced roofer? Or an odd job man out of his depth? Do either have references such as good quality work done for people nearby? I am ignorant of the work, but surely it would involve using a large mass (hammer) or a cutting device (angle grinder) to break off bricks, and I am not sure it would be safe to be on a sloping roof, using such equipment to remove bricks without a platform. I wonder if a cherry picker would work? Again, don't take my comments as any more than uneducated comments, but I think you need feedback from roofers and/or builders.

Skint_yet_Again

Thanks for all the helpful replies. Its my friends B-in-L and he has just gone on holiday for a week, so following your advice when he gets back I will be asking him if he has public liability insurance and maybe how much extra it would cost with scaffolding, and then we can make a decision

Thanks again

ian103

vaio wrote: »

No doubt the roofer has done a risk assessment and decided that the job can be done safely from ladders. Without specific site & equipment knowledge I struggle to see how you can question his assessment.

As to "what stops him falling off? (unless he can attach a fall arrest lanyard somewhere?)" at the risk of being flippant, it might be a fall arrest system or it might be the innate skill that roofers seem to have for not falling off ladders. The same skill is also useful for not falling off scaffolding too.

OP... I'd say the last thing you want to do is start providing scaffolding or otherwise getting involved in their safety matters as it could open a can of liability worms should an accident happen.

Either go with the cheap price and leave it to the experienced professional roofers to provide their safe working environment in line with their risk assessment or go with the expensive quote and again leave it to the experienced professional roofers to provide their safe working environment in line with their risk assessment

I'm not questioning the roofers judgement thats upto the original poster to do which at this point I think he is correctly doing.

It would be your choice to use whichever quote you are comfortable with but it is normal for all but very short duration jobs that are carried out at height for a working platform to be provided.

I wouldn't want to try and justify the no scaffold option to the HSE as they won't be interested in scaffold wasn't used to save cost arguement.

If it was my BIL I wouldn't want him to take unnecessary risks either with risk of injury, costs of defending his method statemnt if questioned by LA / HSE etc or prosecution by HSE.