Tacho laws & rest periods.

WasntMe_2

I know as much as you need to take 45 mins every 4.5 hours driving & that for every 6 hours working you need to have had your 45 mins break, which can be 1 lump of 45 or a 15 followed by a 30, but not the other way around.

Or at least that's my understanding of it.

My understanding is also that if you are 44 minutes into your 45 minute break & have to move your vehicle then you have to restart your whole 45 mins all over again.

Question is based on that...

What happens in the following scenario:

You're on your break, your vehicle is being loaded. The boss (owner of whole company) is getting involved with your load & instructs someone to move the vehicle. Employee states the vehicle is on a break. Boss says they don't give a XYZ & move the chuffing vehicle now. Employee states they can't move the vehicle. Boss then goes & gets the keys off the driver & moves the vehicle while it's still on break.

Transport manager says driver is to write on the back of the tacho (what happens if you have a digicard btw? This isn't the case in THIS case, but i wonder...?) that the vehicle was moved by THE boss & NOT the driver.

Of course, this could be all a load of bull (the driver could make this up every single day for e.g.)

Speaking to other drivers, they say that transport manager is wrong in what they say & that driver should restart their entire break from scratch.

Someone HAS to be wrong here. Question is - who?

forgotmyname

You dont need to do another 45 minutes. Just another 15.

The driver should have said no problem i will move it now, Just gotta have a wee. Then take enough time for the break to complete.

Breaks and loading can be a grey area.

Tilt

It's as clear as mud sometimes when it comes to driver's hours.

To simplify it, after 4.5 hours continuous driving, you must take a MINIMUM 45 min break. Your transport manager will know this. However, you can take a 15 minute break and then a 30 minute break distributed within the 4.5 hours (which obviously then wouldn't be continuous).

A full detailed account is here http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Rules%20on%20Drivers%20Hours%20and%20Tachographs%20-%20PSVs%20in%20GB%20and%20Europe.pdf

As far as I can tell, if your break is cut short then it dosn't count as a break. But it would depend on what you had done before the break to determine whether this would affect you legally or not.

WasntMe_2

forgotmyname wrote: »

The driver should have said no problem i will move it now, Just gotta have a wee. Then take enough time for the break to complete.

Unfortunately in this instance that wouldn't have been possible. The boss wanted it moving there & then. Boss was flipping out so any delay would've brought a royal rollocking & trust me, none of us wanted one of those!!!

The transport manager is usually pretty hot on tacho law (or at least is convincing when passing tacho law off). With other drivers saying this bit of information is incorrect though, it casts doubt.

Perhaps the best thing is to contact VOSA?

kevin0410

you could pull your card (if digital tachograph) then complete the break with a manual entry.

a break interupted at 44 mins would require a further 30 mins.

you need 15 mins break before you reach 6 hours continuous working time. A total of 30 mins if you work between 6 and 9 hours and a total of 45 mins if you work over 9 hours. Of course, these breaks will get covered should you reach 4.5 hours driving time.

Loganfire

forgotmyname wrote: »

You dont need to do another 45 minutes. Just another 15.

The driver should have said no problem i will move it now, Just gotta have a wee. Then take enough time for the break to complete.

Breaks and loading can be a grey area.

THIS IS WRONG WHAT SAID ABOVE, YOU DO WHAT HERE SAYS VOSA WILL COME DOWN ON YOU.

First break can be taken in two parts a full 45 mins or a 15mins first then a 30 mins later for every 4.5h of driving. Not 30 mins then a 15 mins.

Second if you do not do 4.5 hours of driving within 6h then all you needs is a 30 min break.

Now your transport manager should be sacked for also given you the wrong info, telling you just to mark what happened on your tacko is wrong vosa will still what you to show that you had a full 45 min break. You can write on your tacko if you gone over hours due to vehicle stuck in traffic accident etc and some other reasons.

As to your dum a-s boss if I had his details I would be reporting him and his fleet to vosa just because of what he tried to get you to do. When on break at no point can you be interrupted by work, work ring you, sorting out your load or being asked to do other jobs even vosa can not interrupt you whilst on break they will leave you alone till you have finished your 45 mins break.

Now what you could have done is when he told you to move the wagon now or else you should have said yes not a problem unless over driving time and moved it, then took another 30 mins break as the 44 mins would have been classed as your 15 mins. Also remember you can not move the wagon until you took 46 mins has the 45th min is classed as being on your break. You can not even touch your tacko whilst on break.

I was doing some work for Nightfreight and a manager told me I was ok to go, I told him i was still on break and I would move in about 5 mins when break was finished. He started shouting and it got abit heated when after a minute or so I told him as I been interrupted whilst on break I would take my full 45 mins again let says he was not happy with that. Following day I took a printed copy of the rules to him and told him to read them I also said if any disciplinary was to come from this I would then also inform Vosa about him and the company transport operations. Lol I not heard out since.

Ps I have worked at CityLink and Nightfreight if I where you I would not have my goods shipped by either of them as I seen what they do to your parcels. lol

gilbert_and_sullivan

Whether you have a digi card or tacho the answer is the same in the scenario described.

You either write on the back of the tacho, or if you have a digi do two print outs and write on the back of both the genuine reason for the movement and sign it....hand one copy in ASAP at the office (they can tie it up with any infringement notice they give you) and keep the other with you in case you get stopped by the old bill or VOSA.

Note this is not a crafty ploy to use 3 times a week, cos if you get stopped VOSA will go through your records and if this happens regularly they will have you, they look for regular good behaviour and the one odd time this happens they will be fine.

VOSA are not as nasty as some people make out indeed i have found them nothing but fair over many years if you are straight but have made a genuine mistake, but don't ever think they are idiots or try to put one over them.

If this is likely to happen then it would be best to remove the tacho or digi card and sign off for lunch, then put it back in again after lunch.

In case of tacho you put the new details of second (but same) vehicle on the back of the card and make a manual entry as regards break taken.

In case of digi you manually input the details of your break on the screen...unless you happen to have a Stonebridge digi in which case you will need a degree in advanced IT to manage that.

kevin0410

Loganfire wrote: »

Second if you do not do 4.5 hours of driving within 6h then all you needs is a 30 min break.

Wrong. It's 15 mins

Loganfire

kevin0410 wrote: »

Wrong. It's 15 mins

We are going to agree to disagree on this as I know it to be 30 mins could not find anything on the VOAS hand book on this but I did find this on ACAS site.

"The Working Time Regulations (WTR) don't specifically say anything about lunch breaks, but do allow for one uninterrupted 20-minute rest break during the working day, provided the working period is longer than 6 hours."

If this is for a normal worker such as office staff retail etc. It shows your 15 mins is against the working time regulations

WasntMe_2

Well thanks guys for the advice. No offence to anyone here but it seems we're not going to have an agreement on this one. Nothing wrong with that - it just means i should really contact VOSA for an official line on this one. In the case that this may happen again, i can then go armed with official paperwork from VOSA & say bam - these are the rules.

Loganfire wrote: »

As to your dum a-s boss if I had his details I would be reporting him and his fleet to vosa just because of what he tried to get you to do.

& that was without me telling you the boss tried getting another worker (who doesn't have the appropriate licence & stated this to the boss) to take the vehicle on the road. Not a dirt track or any other off road track - but the road. Worker pointed out they couldn't do this & why. Boss went a bit nuts at them & threatened them with a very very late finish if they didn't do it. Worker asked if boss would pay the fine & take the rap for it & that they doubted boss would. Boss again got irate & threatened.
Worker didn't move the vehicle.

kevin0410

Loganfire wrote: »

We are going to agree to disagree on this as I know it to be 30 mins could not find anything on the VOAS hand book on this but I did find this on ACAS site.

"The Working Time Regulations (WTR) don't specifically say anything about lunch breaks, but do allow for one uninterrupted 20-minute rest break during the working day, provided the working period is longer than 6 hours."

If this is for a normal worker such as office staff retail etc. It shows your 15 mins is against the working time regulations

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/639/regulation/7/made

Your post shows WTD for general workers. The WTD for mobile workers is different.