Nationwide and recurring charges.

jamie11

First time posting on this board and I'm not even sure it's the correct board for this so forgive me if it's not.

The problem is this:-

About 10 years ago I had a Sky contract that was paid for with a credit/debit (not sure which) card on a monthly contract. This was arranged by the installer of the dish after I gave him the details.

This worked fine for about six years then Sky decided to upgrade their service and gradually degraded the service to my 'Pace' box until it was completely unusable.

At this point I decided to stop the payments through Nationwide BS and asked them to cancel the payment. Nationwide said they could not because it was a recurring payment on that card number and account.

Sky continued to take their £20 a month.

My account was always in credit and swallowed these payments, I tried to get NW to stop the payments by going through their complaints procedure but to no avail.

(I'm trying to keep this short......honest)

Eventually I withdrew my remaining funds from NW and opened another account elsewhere, the account with NW was never in overdraft. In fact I left it with a positive balance of £1.00 something.

At some stage during the back and fro I spoke to Sky who informed me that the contract I was paying for belonged to someone that lived in Gateshead, I've never lived in Gateshead in my life. I've never even been there.

Sky continued to take the money even after a direct conversation, I could not even quote the card number by this time because the card itself had been stolen and canceled years ago.

NW are now dunning me for a total of nearly £500 on this closed account with charges and payments that Sky have taken, the latest is a LBA requiring me to pay in full before 18th June 2013..

That's the explanation, now the question.

I don't want to even run the risk of a ccj so I am thinking of paying the asked for amount to stall them but then issuing my own MCOL against both Nationwide and Sky themselves for failing to act on my explicit instructions, as joint defendants, I would expect it to be allocated to the SCC because in real terms the amount is insignificant.

What do you think?

Just to add, I do have another contract with Sky running now for their Sky+ service, from a completely different account, I don't have a problem with that one...............yet.

rb10

jamie11 wrote: »

Sky continued to take their £20 a month.

My account was always in credit and swallowed these payments, I tried to get NW to stop the payments by going through their complaints procedure but to no avail.

(I'm trying to keep this short......honest)

Eventually I withdrew my remaining funds from NW and opened another account elsewhere, the account with NW was never in overdraft. In fact I left it with a positive balance of £1.00 something.

I'd like to be polite ... but this was a stupid thing to do.

You knew that Sky were taking £20 per month, so thought you'd just forget about it and hope the problem went away?

You must have known that the account would continue to run up an ever increasing overdraft balance? Hiding problems doesn't get rid of them.

Anyway, onto more constructive thoughts:

From what you have posted, Nationwide have acted correctly. It is now possible for banks/building societies to cancel recurring payments, but this has only started in recent months. Until then, payments had to be cancelled with the retailer.

So forget about complaining to Nationwide. They have acted correctly, and given you the correct advice (i.e. speak to Sky).

You need to take this up with Sky, the sooner the better. I would suggest writing (/emailing) to their complaints department. Make sure that it's headed up as 'Formal Complaint', and you outline clearly:
- what you have done (i.e. asked them to cancel this payment)
- what they have done (i.e. nothing)
- what you are asking for (i.e. cancel the payment now, refund you the amount they've taken since you originally asked for the payment to be cancelled, pay your overdraft charges)

Then there's the damage to your credit file, which will be harder to put right. Initially I would just ask them to inform you how they will put this right. If (or when!) they don't come back with anything constructive, you could suggest that they write a letter that can be forwarded to Nationwide, explaining that the overdraft was due to their error, and requesting that Nationwide update your credit file accordingly. I don't personally think you have a high chance of success with this, as Sky are unlikely to be co-operative, and Nationwide have no obligation at all to change what they have reported (as it's factually correct, they are not party to your contract with Sky). If this is the case, then you could put a notice of correction on each of your three credit files.

Keep the letter short and clear. One side of A4 maximum.

Good luck.

jamie11

I'd like to be polite ... but this was a stupid thing to do.

No need to be polite, I'm an old hand!

You knew that Sky were taking £20 per month, so thought you'd just forget about it and hope the problem went away?

I didn't forget about it, I tried for two years to get NW to stop the payments, including going through their complaints procedures, when I eventually told them to close the account they refused, leaving me with little option but to escalate. Sky took no notice whatsoever.

From what you have posted, Nationwide have acted correctly. It is now possible for banks/building societies to cancel recurring payments, but this has only started in recent months. Until then, payments had to be cancelled with the retailer.

That's interesting, have you any idea when that change happened?

You need to take this up with Sky, the sooner the better. I would suggest writing (/emailing) to their complaints department. Make sure that it's headed up as 'Formal Complaint', and you outline clearly:
- what you have done (i.e. asked them to cancel this payment)
- what they have done (i.e. nothing)
- what you are asking for (i.e. cancel the payment now, refund you the amount they've taken since you originally asked for the payment to be cancelled, pay your overdraft charges)

Done all that, nothing happened!

Then there's the damage to your credit file,

As far as I'm aware there is no damage to my credit file as yet, I have a near perfect score and these days I only deal in cash.

The real question here is whether I should just pay their demands, sub £500 so not too painful, or wait to get their claim then defend it on the grounds that Sky have continued to charge me for a service they no longer supplied and that NW have failed to act on my instructions to cease payment of the recurring charge.

jonesMUFCforever

Up until a year or so back Nationwide could not stop CPA 's to Sky or anybody else.
You should have talked to Sky.
Suing Nationwide is bound to fail so save your online fees and tackle Sky.

jamie11

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

Up until a year or so back Nationwide could not stop CPA 's to Sky or anybody else.
You should have talked to Sky.
Suing Nationwide is bound to fail so save your online fees and tackle Sky.

Thank you! I have taken your advice on board, I may well pay the amount demanded before it escalates but first I will have to be sure that that would be the end of the matter, otherwise I would just be p'ing in the wind if they come after me again next year.

Right! Now let's talk about this obsession you seem to have with MUFC............Have you thought this through? Supporting a bunch of multimillionaires for running around a football pitch once a week? Is that a sensible use of your time?

Hmm! I've gone off topic in my own thread.

?CPA....continuous payment authority?

jonesMUFCforever

jamie11 wrote: »

Thank you! I have taken your advice on board, I may well pay the amount demanded before it escalates but first I will have to be sure that that would be the end of the matter, otherwise I would just be p'ing in the wind if they come after me again next year.

Right! Now let's talk about this obsession you seem to have with MUFC............Have you thought this through? Supporting a bunch of multimillionaires for running around a football pitch once a week? Is that a sensible use of your time?

Hmm! I've gone off topic in my own thread.

?CPA....continuous payment authority?

Yes that's right - I have supported them when they were skint and in the old second division - a long time ago LOL:T

chattychappy

rb10 wrote: »

From what you have posted, Nationwide have acted correctly. It is now possible for banks/building societies to cancel recurring payments, but this has only started in recent months. Until then, payments had to be cancelled with the retailer.

jamie11 wrote: »

That's interesting, have you any idea when that change happened?

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

Up until a year or so back Nationwide could not stop CPA 's

In fact, the law changed on 1st November 2009. That was the day the Payment Service Regulations 2009 which implemented the EU directive came into force. This gave customers the right to cancel CPAs via their bank/CC.

The specific regulation which gives consumers this right is reg 55. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2009/209/regulation/55/made

CCs simply failed to comply with the law until more recently when the consequences of the regulation were understood. Even then, there have still been stories of CCs misrepresenting the law by telling consumers they must cancel with the merchant first.

For a CPA, any cancellation given to a CC (or in respect of a debit card) on or since 1st November, 2009 should have been effective.

InsideInsurance

But still cancelling payment is not the same as cancelling a service. If you had managed to get the payments stopped that would have just moved the debt from you owning Nationwide to you owing Sky potentially with some extra non-payment charges added on top.

If you want to cancel a service you must cancel it with the service provider not the bank.

To give an easy to understand example. You go into work on payday and aren't given a payslip and find no funds have been put in your bank. You query it with your manager/ HR and they say that they decided they dont want your services anymore and thought that stopping your pay was the easiest way of informing you. Would you be happy with that?

jamie11

InsideInsurance wrote: »

But still cancelling payment is not the same as cancelling a service. If you had managed to get the payments stopped that would have just moved the debt from you owning Nationwide to you owing Sky potentially with some extra non-payment charges added on top.

Of course.

Did you miss the bit where I said Sky had this service down as being delivered in Gateshead?

I did speak to them, however by the time I did I no longer had the card nor did I have the equipment because Sky had stopped servicing that equipment long since when they upgraded to Sky+. The whole problem arises from Sky's use of a card number that they seem to have attached to someone else' account. I don't know who that someone is and Sky certainly will not tell me nor take any action even after being told by both me and the bank. Rock and a hard place comes to mind.

The specific regulation which gives consumers this right is reg 55. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...lation/55/made

Thanks for that chattychappy. That's the first time that's been brought to my attention.

I shall see how that works, maybe I'll just wait until they do make a claim and then defend, or maybe pay the amount and then try an MCOL so that they are on the defensive rather than me.

I forgot to mention.......The account I had with NW usually had an agreed O/D facilitiy of £3000, I didn't need to use this ever, however before I stopped using the account I properly ended the facility. That meant that from that point NW were deliberately pushing my account into an unauthorised overdrawn state. I thought they were supposed to refuse to to that unless it had been arranged..........don't forget, by this time all cards had been destroyed, all DD's cancelled and moved, nothing at all being paid in. They refused to close the account.

jonesMUFCforever

Then I will repeat you need to complain to Sky.
Mark your LETTER a FORMAL Complaint.

rb10

jamie11 wrote: »

I forgot to mention.......The account I had with NW usually had an agreed O/D facilitiy of £3000, I didn't need to use this ever, however before I stopped using the account I properly ended the facility. That meant that from that point NW were deliberately pushing my account into an unauthorised overdrawn state. I thought they were supposed to refuse to to that unless it had been arranged..........don't forget, by this time all cards had been destroyed, all DD's cancelled and moved, nothing at all being paid in. They refused to close the account.

No - CPAs are different to other types of payments, so Nationwide had no option but to authorise the payments.

With the substantial, and growing, debt on the account, they would not be able to close it.

As has been said previously, Nationwide have not done anything wrong. Your issue is purely with Sky.