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Dangerous electrics

124

Comments

  • AndyPK
    AndyPK Posts: 4,392 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts
    Id like to understand how a cartridge fuse is better than a Rewireable for "clearing faults".

    How does changing from cartridge fuse to Rewireable "improve performance?"
  • ValHaller
    ValHaller Posts: 5,212 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    AndyPK wrote: »
    Id like to understand how a cartridge fuse is better than a Rewireable for "clearing faults".

    How does changing from cartridge fuse to Rewireable "improve performance?"
    Cartridge fuses are filled with sand..Once the conductor breaks, there is an arc which is quickly cooled by the sand, leading to shut off of current on the next current zero. And then you throw the fuse away and start again with a clean one.

    Rewireables have to dissipate arc energy into air - the arc remains hotter for longer and over a few uses, will deposit metal on the inside of the ceramic cavity, which to my mind makes them suspect.
    You might as well ask the Wizard of Oz to give you a big number as pay a Credit Referencing Agency for a so-called 'credit-score'
  • Wi88le
    Wi88le Posts: 168 Forumite
    AndyPK wrote: »
    How does changing from cartridge fuse to Rewireable "improve performance?"

    Faster disconnection times, lower fault current needed to blow fuse.
  • Rockingit
    Rockingit Posts: 206 Forumite
    Wi88le wrote: »
    3036 Rewirable fuses vs circuit breakers from a time/disconnection point of view.

    It all comes down to how the fuses or circuit breakers operate under fault conditions, wether that be short circuit or overload conditions, breakers and fuses all have different characteristics.
    Rewirable fuses are still compliant with the current regulations, unlike some circuit breakers.

    A 3036 rewirable fuse normally blows quickly under short circuit fault conditions as the current from the fault is sufficient to blow the fuse, however fusewire requires a much higher current than its rating to blow under overload conditions, look at the time curve graph for rewirable fuses...
    http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Fuse

    So for a 5a lighting circuit...
    13A for 5 sec
    18A for 1 sec
    24A for 0.4 as required by current regs in most cases domestically) *5 times the rated current of the fuse
    32A for 0.2 sec
    45A for 0.1 sec

    Now look at a type b 60898 circuit breaker...
    http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=MCB

    For a 6A breaker
    30A to trip from 0.1 to 5 sec ( not as odd as it sounds )
    So at 30A or above disconnection in 0.1 sec due to magnetic strip operating.
    Small overcurrent allowed,6.65A without trip however above that the thermal contact will operate and trip instantly at 9A

    So yes the breaker performs better but in some aspects only marginally so, it is however when an rcd or rcbo is added that the benefit is really seen as faults are more likely to be detected and disconnection time is now in milliseconds and milliamps not seconds and amps.

    oh dear oh dear oh dear. Please stop advising people twaddle - or at the very least actually try to learn something about the subject first rather than quoting from some wiki entry using scanned pages from BS7671 out of context. Oh, and I bet the BSI are just thrilled at the copyright infringement on that, too.
  • Rockingit
    Rockingit Posts: 206 Forumite
    ValHaller wrote: »
    Cartridge fuses are filled with sand..Once the conductor breaks, there is an arc which is quickly cooled by the sand, leading to shut off of current on the next current zero. And then you throw the fuse away and start again with a clean one.

    Rewireables have to dissipate arc energy into air - the arc remains hotter for longer and over a few uses, will deposit metal on the inside of the ceramic cavity, which to my mind makes them suspect.

    Put 1000+ amps of fault current through them and there's not an awful lot left - even 80A fusewire leaves nothing but a big black scorch mark on the asbestos pad!
  • Rockingit
    Rockingit Posts: 206 Forumite
    The biggest fault that rewireables have is simply that you have to rewire them - not always convenient to mess about with a fiddly job in the dark!
  • ValHaller
    ValHaller Posts: 5,212 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Rockingit wrote: »
    The biggest fault that rewireables have is simply that you have to rewire them - not always convenient to mess about with a fiddly job in the dark!
    The advantage of that is that by trial and error you can increase the fuse wire size until you find something which doesn't blow ......
    You might as well ask the Wizard of Oz to give you a big number as pay a Credit Referencing Agency for a so-called 'credit-score'
  • Rockingit
    Rockingit Posts: 206 Forumite
    ValHaller wrote: »
    The advantage of that is that by trial and error you can increase the fuse wire size until you find something which doesn't blow ......

    Shall we pretend you didn't just say that?! :shocked:
  • ValHaller
    ValHaller Posts: 5,212 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Rockingit wrote: »
    Shall we pretend you didn't just say that?! :shocked:
    I am a big fan of cartridge fuses over rewireables and MCBs.

    Just read what I say in favour of rewireables as being open to the advantages of something different.
    You might as well ask the Wizard of Oz to give you a big number as pay a Credit Referencing Agency for a so-called 'credit-score'
  • matbe
    matbe Posts: 568 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts
    You have asked an electrician for a report and he has correctly in my opinion found fault with the main tails to the consumer unit (among other things you have stated that are not visible from your photos)

    To replace the tails in 25mm which is the minimum now recommended is impossible with old wylex consumers as the terminals are barely large enough to accept them and even if you manage to get them in somehow you then have to replace the earth conductor with 16mm and that definitely wont fit in a wylex earth bar so the best way is to swop the consumer unit.

    A full test would then be required on the entire installation and looking at the mess just in the mains cupboard(probably carried out by a diyer) the rest of the house will be a mess too.


    I think if you can get someone who is a registered electrician to repair and certify that lot for 700 quid I would bite their hand off


    P.S don't pay a penny until you get a certificate.
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