Distance Seller wants us to pay by Chip & Pin?

Slowhand

Or just buy locally?

InsideInsurance

neilmcl wrote: »

Can you quote that relevant part please because I'm struggling to see it?

For example:

_Section_3 wrote:

“distance contract” means any contract concerning goods or services concluded between a supplier and a consumer under an organised distance sales or service provision scheme run by the supplier who, for the purpose of the contract, makes exclusive use of one or more means of distance communication up to and including the moment at which the contract is concluded;

Then from the OFT:

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft698.pdf wrote:

When is a contract concluded?
2.22 A contract is concluded when the consumer becomes bound to buy something and the business becomes bound to supply it.

So as I say, the commitment to buy must be by distance communication

neilmcl

InsideInsurance wrote: »

For example:



Then from the OFT:



So as I say, the commitment to buy must be by distance communication

Sorry to be pedantic but that's not what you said though was it:

The DSR says that the relevant part that must be "distant" is the commitment to buy.

That's not the relevant part at all. The "relevant" part is that the whole of the process must make exclusive use of distance means.

InsideInsurance

neilmcl wrote: »

Sorry to be pedantic but that's not what you said though was it:

That's not the relevant part at all. The "relevant" part is that the whole of the process must make exclusive use of distance means.

I did have a conversation with TS, and of cause I accept they arent always right, with the scenario of someone discussing a product in store and then buying from the same store online.

Their view was DSR would apply as the purchase had been made online despite the in store discussions beforehand.

JimmyTheWig

bobwilson wrote: »

So, would it be fair to say my options are:
1. Pay by CC chip and pin and get bank protection in case of non delivery but no protection under DSRs.
2. Pay by bank transfer and get full protection under DSRs but no bank protection so would have to fight in court incase anything happened.

Sounds reasonable from what's been said.

If you think they might be dodgy, don't got for option 2.

Do you think you might need to rely on DSRs? Why? If not, why not go with option 1?
You still get Sale of Goods Act, etc, safe in the knowledge your credit card company will get your money back for you if you need it to.

ILW

Op does seem to be seems a bit obsessed with DSR.

I wonder if he hopes the get the gear, do a full garden overhaul in less than a week and then reject the gear.

bobwilson

Hi all,

As these tools aren't stocked, I'd be having to buy "blind" so to speak, just by looking at pictures online, which is rather worrying for £1000 worth of gear, so I'd like to be covered by the DSR if possible. Say for example it arrives and we change our minds.

A friend of mine bought a black & decker strimmer for £200, their leading model. When it arrived, the auto-feed function didn't work. Black & Decker and the shop refused to acknowledge a fault, and said "if it jams, you just have to fix it... [fixing it takes a huge effort and time]". It turned out the design was temperamental and it was constantly jamming, but that isn't considered a fault, so he had to use the weight of the DSRs to return it.

Another friend of mine bought something that turned out not to be powerful as he was expecting, so he had to use the DSRs to return it.

There are plenty of examples where you don't want to end up stuck with something you can't use, especially when spending so much money.

ILW wrote: »

Op does seem to be seems a bit obsessed with DSR.

I wonder if he hopes the get the gear, do a full garden overhaul in less than a week and then reject the gear.

I'm not obsessed with the DSRs or trying to get free use of gear for a week, and I don't undestand what would be the point in that since gardens grow constantly... not just for one week lol! It would take far longer than a week to overhaul my garden anyway, but we digress..

bobwilson

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

Sounds reasonable from what's been said.

If you think they might be dodgy, don't got for option 2.

Do you think you might need to rely on DSRs? Why? If not, why not go with option 1?
You still get Sale of Goods Act, etc, safe in the knowledge your credit card company will get your money back for you if you need it to.

HSBC credit cards said they won't protect you incase the tools arrive dead on arrival or you have any other problems. They'll only protect you in case of non-delivery :cool: So if the shop decides to be anal (it has happened), you're on you're own.

I think basically I buy online from a distance on my credit card because I know I'm protected in case the worst case scenario happens. Shops have been known to break the law on many occasions, and they just don't seem to care, so spending £1000 and trusting a shop entirely isn't really wise.

If I have to put my trust in a shop entirely, I'd have to buy far away from London, from a big reputable store. But none of the big ones sell these items.

arcon5

If you pay by chip and pin and it turns out the card is stolen, the retailers money is guaranteed. If you pay over the phone and it turns out the card is stolen, they may be subjected to the money being returned. If the goods was low value they may be willing and more able to take on the order and the higher risk it entails, for for £1k order I can see why they wouldn't want to bear the risk unnecessarily.

As for the chargeback, they are only made hard to defend if the claim is that the transaction is fraudulent or card stolen. For things like faulty goods or goods not received, this can be defended relatively straight forwardly. I've defended a few in the past successfully. But for fraudulent claims, providing evidence is much harder!!!

What don't you trust about them? It seems you want the ability to change your mind if you wish -- but if they don't usually accept sales by distance means, even if you pay over the phone you may not be covered by DSRs.
If the goods are faulty you are still protected by SoGA and S75 of the CCA.

arcon5

bobwilson wrote: »

HSBC credit cards said they won't protect you incase the tools arrive dead on arrival or you have any other problems. They'll only protect you in case of non-delivery :cool: So if the shop decides to be anal (it has happened), you're on you're own.

I think basically I buy online from a distance on my credit card because I know I'm protected in case the worst case scenario happens. Shops have been known to break the law on many occasions, and they just don't seem to care, so spending £1000 and trusting a shop entirely isn't really wise.

If I have to put my trust in a shop entirely, I'd have to buy far away from London, from a big reputable store. But none of the big ones sell these items.

Unfortunately HSBC don't have a choice - the law makes them equally liable for performance of the contract. And the law also implies terms surrounding quality and fitness in to consumer contracts.

I suspect the operative isn't trained in this area.