Distance Seller wants us to pay by Chip & Pin?

bobwilson

Hello everybody! :beer:

We are trying to buy some Cordless Garden tools, to the value of over £1000. Lawn Mower, Strimmer, hedge trimmer, and so on etc.

After weeks of getting quotes, we agreed to go with shop no. 1. They said they would deliver the items within 3 days after payment. As soon as it came time to pay, the difficulty started. They said they refuse to take credit card payments because they had problems with chargebacks, and that they only accept bank transfer or chip & pin in their store. However, they can't let us see the goods before buying, they would be ordered in stock and delivered to us.

Hence the problem; we'd be essentially buying from a distance, but by chip and pinning, would be waiving our rights under the distance selling regulations. What happens if our goods never turn up? What if we change our mind? You get the drift.

The shop argued they only accept credit card for small amounts because "our money isn't guaranteed". This made absolutely no sense. I tried to explain to them that the credit card company always give the shop the option to prove that delivery took place to the card's billing address. All they have to do is show them the signature taken by the courier. But trying to reason with them proved futile, and instead of explaining themselves, they just ignored my email.

So, we turned to the other shops, but all of them proved troublesome as well, and rude. Shop no. 2 took our money, but then called up 3 days later to say we'd have to pick up the items from their store 200 miles away (!). We then turned to shop no. 3 who took our order and then a day later said they gave us the wrong prices, and want to amend their quote, but they never got back to us with new prices. We don't understand how they make their businesses work behaving like this.

So my question is really, does anyone know if by paying through chip & pin for unseen items, does it still counts as a distance sold transaction covered under the DSRs?

If we pay by bank transfer, will we be covered under the DSRs and will our bank protect us in the event of a problem? We are used to using credit cards for the extra protection they provide, but in this case the shop won't accept it.

Thanks

ILW

I would be suspicious as to why they will not accept CCs. Bank will give you no protection if transfer done.

Can you not just go to a decent retailer and buy the stuff over the counter?

InsideInsurance

bobwilson wrote: »

. What happens if our goods never turn up? What if we change our mind? You get the drift.

The shop argued they only accept credit card for small amounts because "our money isn't guaranteed". This made absolutely no sense. I tried to explain to them that the credit card company always give the shop the option to prove that delivery took place to the card's billing address. All they have to do is show them the signature taken by the courier.

If the goods never turn up then they are in breach of their contract and so either (a) you sue them, (b) you do a chargeback or (c) you make a section 75 claim. Goods not turning up is nothing at all to do with the DSR

If you change your mind then it would almost certainly be considered an in store purchase and so you would need to see what the store's return policy is as the DSR wouldnt apply.

The stores comments are fairly accurate about the money not being guaranteed. If you ever read any SME forum 99% of them will say it simply isnt worth bothering to defend a chargeback as the timescales are unrealistic and banks 99% of the time side with the consumer even if the merchant responds in time and offers evidence to prove their case. Forums say to simply ignore the chargeback request thus allowing it to go through and send a 7 day notice of intent to issue and go straight for a CCJ

Ultimately it is their business and up to them if they want to sell by distance or not and what special terms they want to apply as long as they arent discriminating based on race/ disability/ gender etc

bobwilson

ILW wrote: »

I would be suspicious as to why they will not accept CCs. Bank will give you no protection if transfer done.

they will accept CCs if we go to their shop and pay by chip and pin.

ILW

bobwilson wrote: »

they will accept CCs if we go to their shop and pay by chip and pin.

Think that will exclude DSR which can be more trouble than it is worth.

bobwilson

InsideInsurance wrote: »

it would almost certainly be considered an in store purchase and so... the DSR wouldnt apply.

Even if you ordered the goods over the phone, bought the goods unseen but paid via chip and pin in store without having seen any goods as they dont stock them?

So, am I right in the following:

My options are:
1. Pay by CC chip and pin and get bank protection in case of non delivery but no protection under DSRs.
2. Pay by bank transfer and get full protection under DSRs but no bank protection so would have to fight in court in worst case scenario.

InsideInsurance

bobwilson wrote: »

Even if you ordered the goods over the phone, bought the goods unseen but paid via chip and pin in store without having seen any goods as they dont stock them?

So, am I right in the following:

My options are:
1. Pay by CC chip and pin and get bank protection in case of non delivery but no protection under DSRs.
2. Pay by bank transfer and get full protection under DSRs but no bank protection so would have to fight in court incase anything happened.

The DSR says that the relevant part that must be "distant" is the commitment to buy. Normally the commitment to buy is the point that you pay (or pay a deposit) but undoubtedly there can be other points given some stores do offer buy now pay later with no deposit.

I will bow to others with more experience than me but to the best of my knowledge the fact the commitment to buy is made in store (ie the payment) the fact the goods will have to be ordered and delivered directly to you rather than being available to view in store is irrelevant.

If this were not the case than 95% of new build to order car sales would be considered distance selling because no car dealer stocks every model with every engine, colour, interior and optional extras combination possible for the person to view prior to ordering.

In reverse, you can go in store, look at items etc and then walk out and buy it online and still have DSR rights because the commitment was made off site.

bobwilson

So, would it be fair to say my options are:
1. Pay by CC chip and pin and get bank protection in case of non delivery but no protection under DSRs.
2. Pay by bank transfer and get full protection under DSRs but no bank protection so would have to fight in court incase anything happened.

ILW

Or just go to a stockist, check it out and buy there and then if it's what you want. Everybody happy.

neilmcl

OP, who's the retailer and do they normally sell at a distance or are you simply giving them the go ahead to order via phone? If the latter then you wouldn't normally be covered by the DSRs anyway. Remember, the whole process must be conducted by distance means.

neilmcl

InsideInsurance wrote: »

The DSR says that the relevant part that must be "distant" is the commitment to buy.

Can you quote that relevant part please because I'm struggling to see it?

“distance contract” means any contract concerning goods or services concluded between a supplier and a consumer under an organised distance sales or service provision scheme run by the supplier who, for the purpose of the contract, makes exclusive use of one or more means of distance communication up to and including the moment at which the contract is concluded;