Is small claims suitable?

merc_fintail

I am a kitchen fitter and was employed by an Islamic centre in Bury to dismantle, sell and organise the emptying of the building from the previous tenant who owed them money. The agreement was to clear out the building and I would be paid for my ebay fees, PayPal fees and time, plus a management fee for the expertise I brought into it.

Everything went fine and £27000'00 was raised and passed on to the Islamic centre. My fees with my employed labour are just over £5000'00 it was a big job.

Yes you've guessed it. No monies coming my way, the landlord just simply will not pay. There is no written contract the centre is a long standing charity (although I can't find any record of it) we took it on trust that we would be paid as agreed.

Is this small claims or something bigger? I have records of all the transactions paid direct into their bank and records of all of the sales.

Thanks Paul..

Dogger69

What reason are they giving for not paying?

Do you have anything in writing from them, a text or an email will suffice, to signal this was a commercial/ paid arrangement?

arcon5

The ceiling was small claims court was recently raised to £10k, so yes small claims court is a suitable option.

The fact there was no written contract means it's difficult to prove what was and wasn't said, but certainly doesn't mean a contract doesn't exist.

Send them a 'Letter Before Action' giving them 14 days to pay for example before you issue court proceedings.

Also be aware of the Late Payment of Commercial Debts Act which enables you to add fees and interest to the debt.

Having a solicitor fire off a threatening letter shouldn't be too expensive and may be worth a shot, but you can proceed to court without a solicitor or representation though. In fact it's often not worth hiring a solicitor to represent you as small claims court rarely award their full costs.

Have you done some research in to the charity? Got a registered charity number or anything? Or anything in correspondence to indicate you are dealing with a registered charity or a company? If not, i'd be inclined to address the letter to the individual who hired you and tell him you took on the work in good faith and consider him to be acting as a sole trader, thus personally liable for the debt. If there is, do a search on them to see if they have any outstanding judgements or anything, will give you an idea as to the likelihood of being able to enforce the CCJ.

I've got to ask though, why didn't you just deduct the amount from what you raised?

merc_fintail

arcon5 wrote: »

The ceiling was small claims court was recently raised to £10k, so yes small claims court is a suitable option.

The fact there was no written contract means it's difficult to prove what was and wasn't said, but certainly doesn't mean a contract doesn't exist.

Send them a 'Letter Before Action' giving them 14 days to pay for example before you issue court proceedings.

Also be aware of the Late Payment of Commercial Debts Act which enables you to add fees and interest to the debt.

Having a solicitor fire off a threatening letter shouldn't be too expensive and may be worth a shot, but you can proceed to court without a solicitor or representation though. In fact it's often not worth hiring a solicitor to represent you as small claims court rarely award their full costs.

Have you done some research in to the charity? Got a registered charity number or anything? Or anything in correspondence to indicate you are dealing with a registered charity or a company? If not, i'd be inclined to address the letter to the individual who hired you and tell him you took on the work in good faith and consider him to be acting as a sole trader, thus personally liable for the debt. If there is, do a search on them to see if they have any outstanding judgements or anything, will give you an idea as to the likelihood of being able to enforce the CCJ.

I've got to ask though, why didn't you just deduct the amount from what you raised?

Trust. Naivety, stupidity, it seems you can quite simply rip people off without any consequence. I have always dealt with people who have always paid me. I thought an upstanding man of the Islamic faith, who runs a long established, well respected centre would not treat people in this manner. I do not have a written contract but I have proof of all monies he has received. Why would I do 126 hours for nothing? Why would my worker do 131 hours for nothing?

It seems bizarre to me.

merc_fintail

arcon5 wrote: »

The ceiling was small claims court was recently raised to £10k, so yes small claims court is a suitable option.

The fact there was no written contract means it's difficult to prove what was and wasn't said, but certainly doesn't mean a contract doesn't exist.

Send them a 'Letter Before Action' giving them 14 days to pay for example before you issue court proceedings.

Also be aware of the Late Payment of Commercial Debts Act which enables you to add fees and interest to the debt.

Having a solicitor fire off a threatening letter shouldn't be too expensive and may be worth a shot, but you can proceed to court without a solicitor or representation though. In fact it's often not worth hiring a solicitor to represent you as small claims court rarely award their full costs.

Have you done some research in to the charity? Got a registered charity number or anything? Or anything in correspondence to indicate you are dealing with a registered charity or a company? If not, i'd be inclined to address the letter to the individual who hired you and tell him you took on the work in good faith and consider him to be acting as a sole trader, thus personally liable for the debt. If there is, do a search on them to see if they have any outstanding judgements or anything, will give you an idea as to the likelihood of being able to enforce the CCJ.

I've got to ask though, why didn't you just deduct the amount from what you raised?

I've known this man for three years, even worked in his house. He has always made out that the centre was a charity. I have contacted the charity commission and they have no record. I have contacted Hmrc and they have no record either.

merc_fintail

Dogger69 wrote: »

What reason are they giving for not paying?

Do you have anything in writing from them, a text or an email will suffice, to signal this was a commercial/ paid arrangement?

There is no reason, they just won't pay.

lucy03

merc_fintail wrote: »

I've known this man for three years, even worked in his house. He has always made out that the centre was a charity. I have contacted the charity commission and they have no record. I have contacted Hmrc and they have no record either.

I'd be tempted to send a letter before action, and also ask for clarification on who the legal entity is. If nothing is forthcoming then I'd take action against him personally. If it's the case that this isn't a charity or organised body, I suspect defending legal action would cause him all manner of issues in the legal process. Ultimately it might fail, but for the sake of the court fee and the money you're owed, it might be the best route IMO.

As arcon5 said, I think that small claims court is a perfectly viable option in terms of the legal route to take.

merc_fintail

Thanks for the response, I feel a little more positive and determined.

Paul

neilmcl

Why didn't you simply deduct your charges from the initial sum you gave them?

ILW

merc_fintail wrote: »

There is no reason, they just won't pay.

But have you actually asked them why they will not pay? There must be some sort of reply.

Have you officially invoiced them?

ValHaller

Perhaps because of the lack of a written contract he is assuming that you would have paid yourself already?