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Debate House Prices
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Bishop Bashes Boomers
Comments
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The best way to help the poor and needy is to recognise how people actually behavoir in real situations and what their actual aspirations really are. (teach a man to fish rather than give him one)
So the way to hell is paved with good intentions.
I'm sure Housing Benefit was well intended but the inevitable totally predictable result (based on human nature .. what you would call capitalism/supply demand/profit making) was to inflate house prices, provide mssive windfalls to landlords, and help price ordinary people out of the housing market.
Now you may feel that is a price worth paying so an unemployed person can live in a westminster flat costing the tax payers over £100,000 per year.
Many of us feel there are better ways of helping the poor.
And it's likely that every single day of the week you make a decision based on price so allowing the invisible hand to control your life.
Isn't part of the rise need for housing benefit driven by insufficient fish and the fish that can be caught are too small."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
JencParker wrote: »Very true, but we all need a roof over our heads unless we want to be homeless.
The problem started with getting rid of rent control - landlords who didn't have sitting tenants putting rents up and tenants had limited security of tenure. Those that did either decided to wait till they died or bought them out. Add to that, more families had two salaries to take into account when buying so they could borrow more (specifically, allowing two lots of tax relief on interest), so banks were lending people more than the x3 annual salary. Prices increases in rent meant it was cheaper to buy than to rent. Then the BTL trend where people were borrowing on interest only, putting in a tenant and getting the mortgage paid while sitting on a rapidly increasing asset.
Put it all together and you have the situation we are in now of highly overinflated housing costs. Unless the rental market is more controlled and offers security for tenants I can't see the desire for owning your own property will lessen.
Who would want to live in a place where they have limited security of tenure (6 months or a year) not be able to do anything to make it more to their taste, and then have to find somewhere else to live. Fine for the young, unattached, but what about those who have families - children at school etc. Not to mention the cost and stress of moving every year!
If you think private rental was a bed of roses in the 70s you are mistaken. Private rented property was very hard to find and a lot of what was available was substandard. When those
tenancies with sitting tenants came to an end in most cases the property was sold.0 -
Well the first is a double edged sword, the decrese in supply for rent will mean that each one is sold so one less needs to rent, the overall effect would be much eitherway, if ti was a big swing it would go someway to reducing house prices.
Percy,
This is a false theory, I'll explain why.
My Grandmother in law lived in a council house for 40 years.
Mear the end, she needed her house modified to help her live easily.
This was not possible as a council house so the property was bought and the modifications put in place.
to your point, 1 less renter, 1 more owner occupier.
However..........
A couple of years later, she went into care and the house was sold to another owner occupier.
The issue is that the social housing (rental property) was removed from the supply and meaning that new entrants into the need for rental properties had 1 less council house to choose from.
Extrapolate that across all the council houses sold under the RTB scheme and consider that private rental properties only partially filled the gap by the council house sell off
Now we are seeing the population increase, meaning that there is an increased demand for property.
Do you envisage that there is no need for a rental market and that all property should be owner occupied?:wall:
What we've got here is....... failure to communicate.
Some men you just can't reach.
:wall:0 -
JencParker wrote: »
current btl is just a financial game where the banks, letting agents and landlords want their piece of the pie, funded by those who cannot afford to get a mortgage
jenc - when the Financial Services Authority tightened mortgage rules, I predicted on this very site that this would lead to millions being denied a mortgage and that the winners would be the landlords. I've had a number of perfectly decent capable would be mortgagees declined this very week all thanks to seriously deficient regulation that forces lenders to decline or risk one day being sued.
A classic example of big Gov't regulation producing very unfair outcomes.0 -
IveSeenTheLight wrote: »Percy,
This is a false theory, I'll explain why.
My Grandmother in law lived in a council house for 40 years.
Mear the end, she needed her house modified to help her live easily.
This was not possible as a council house so the property was bought and the modifications put in place.
to your point, 1 less renter, 1 more owner occupier.
However..........
A couple of years later, she went into care and the house was sold to another owner occupier.
The issue is that the social housing (rental property) was removed from the supply and meaning that new entrants into the need for rental properties had 1 less council house to choose from.
Extrapolate that across all the council houses sold under the RTB scheme and consider that private rental properties only partially filled the gap by the council house sell off
Now we are seeing the population increase, meaning that there is an increased demand for property.
Do you envisage that there is no need for a rental market and that all property should be owner occupied?
If the RTB property had been replaced then the supply problem would less.
There will always be a need for rental property. There will always be aneed for mix between social and private provision.
Private provision has never filled the void left by RTB and curtailed social building."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
The end of the day I agree the overall solution is we need more houses built,
I promise you this is not going to work.
Do you know any immigrants well? Do you not see how their mates back home are driven to want to come here when they see their immigrant friends new flat / life on Facebook? I just did a mortgage for a Turkish lady - owns a modest kebab shop - she got her London RTB accepted (even though she already owns and lets out a property). Here less than 10 years and already has about £500k equity - can you imagine how this plays back home?
Where else in the world can you be given social housing even though you already own one and where else can that social housing turn quickly into a goldmine for you?
Where else in reality is it so easy to obtain HB? Knowing the Germans as I do I just do not think it would be so easy. Nearly every tenant we get now is on HB - trust me it's a sinch and often these people have a secret working partner who owns B2L's etc.
Supply begets more demand.
The M25 did not relieve congestion in the end, it simply drew more people to the SE.0 -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_London
This is an interesting chart Conrad that shows that the population of Greater London is barely any higher now than it was in 1951. What is noticeable is that the population of central London has fallen quite a lot over the past few decades.0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »If the RTB property had been replaced then the supply problem would less.
We'll thats an IF that was never planned forgrizzly1911 wrote: »There will always be a need for rental property. There will always be a need for mix between social and private provision.
Agreedgrizzly1911 wrote: »Private provision has never filled the void left by RTB and curtailed social building.
Exactly, yet Private Provision (BTL) is often depicted as the evil of house prices, when in fact without BTL, the rental market would be in vast shortage with far fewer opportunities for those who need or desire to rent.
What would have been the impact to renters, predominantly the poorer section of property occupiers (no offence intended):wall:
What we've got here is....... failure to communicate.
Some men you just can't reach.
:wall:0 -
shortchanged wrote: »http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_London
This is an interesting chart Conrad that shows that the population of Greater London is barely any higher now than it was in 1951. What is noticeable is that the population of central London has fallen quite a lot over the past few decades.
very interest statistics
what is amazing and doubtless has a bearing on property prices is the 1 million increase in population between 2001 and 2011
and of course that 36% of Londoners are foreign born0
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