Why are people on the benefits forum so up themselves?

edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Site Feedback
31 replies 3.2K views
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  • PollycatPollycat Forumite
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    Neelienew wrote: »
    This pathetic troll held up his hands and posted this.

    Originally Posted by billandjeanviewpost.gif
    I am posting all over this site. As it is I have two aliases on this and the D&D site, one on the Bankruptcy, one in the Banks and another on the DIY site!
    In fact many that have twigged this one are actually still replying to my others!

    Hi
    I posted on (one of) billandjean's threads on the Benefits board.

    My post was helpful (I thought) but he/she was rude and aggressive.
    I didn't realise at the time that he/she was a troll but I work on the principle that people are genuine and are telling the truth and I give advice based on that.

    If someone is rude to me, then they get it back (as did billandjean).

    I don't agree with the OP that on "99% of threads there is always someone who has to be rude, disparaging, hostile or downright up their own a***s! ".

    There's a lot of very good advice given on the Benefits board and most do stick to advice.

    I don't like posts that blatently ask for a help in circumventing the system, and they should be reported to MSE.
    From one of the 'stickies' on the Benefits board:
    If you spot a thread promoting benefit fraud, please report it to abuse.

    I don't like threads that are not benefit related either - whether they are a rant about Government benefit policies or about people being "rude, disparaging, hostile or downright up their own a***s!". :cool:
  • edited 12 June 2013 at 8:18AM
    MacMicksterMacMickster Forumite
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    edited 12 June 2013 at 8:18AM
    bloolagoon wrote: »
    It can be confusing when you see posts that contradict reality.

    At times they ask how to cheat the system. Why should they be given help to be fraudulent?

    .............what surprises me is that people don't understand the reason why genuine claimants get a rough ride is the less genuine, yet they still support them.

    Black and white is only a small part of life, we are mostly grey, yet some don't admit that this exists.

    There are some great posters on here who know the benefit system inside out, and so are able to advise people on how to get the benefits that they need to help them to get through hard times, or to cope with the challenges of disability.

    When people post along the lines of "These are my circumstances. What help can I get?" then this is exactly what this board is for.

    Sadly, some people instead effectively ask "How do I need to rearrange or represent my life/circumstances in order to be able to maximise the support that I receive from taxpayers?" This is repugnant, and it is this minority who lead to the stigmatisation of genuine claimants.

    I rarely post on the benefits and credits board, as in most cases someone else is able to give better advice. Occasionally, however, I see something that cannot (and should not) pass without comment, with someone looking for advice on how to fleece the system.

    Edit: For those who disagree that this goes on, here is yet another thread from yesterday (which has been reported)
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4645641
    "When the people fear the government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
  • edited 12 June 2013 at 2:16PM
    WywthWywth Forumite
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    edited 12 June 2013 at 2:16PM
    Elzmumof3 wrote: »
    Seems it happens on 99% of the threads on here, there is always someone who has to be rude, disparaging, hostile or downright up their own a***s!

    thought forums like these were meant for help, advice and support, NOT benefit bashing, slating others, and so on!
    Please report any posts you find offensive, etc to [EMAIL="forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com"][email protected][/EMAIL]. (Remember to provide a link to the offending post/thread with short details of what you find offensive)
    Alternatively there is a report button on the post any registered member can use as a shortcut. :)
    (the button is now also available to non-members, but needs a bit more info to complete)
  • rogerblackrogerblack Forumite
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    Sadly, some people instead effectively ask "How do I need to rearrange or represent my life/circumstances in order to be able to maximise the support that I receive from taxpayers?" This is repugnant, and it is this minority who lead to the stigmatisation of genuine claimants.

    I note above - as mentioned - 'it's about entitlement, not policy'.
    It is quite legal to claim carers allowance, with earnings of £200/week, if you pay £200/week into a pension. *1
    It's quite legal to setup a trustfund that will pay holiday expenses, and then save from income over the normal capital limits without it affecting your (normally means tested) benefits. *2
    It's quite legal to claim ESA, do permitted work, and claim tax credits at the same time. *3
    It's again legal in general to arrange your personal affairs in order to maximise benefit, including if you choose to share a house with you partner, or not. And to choose how you represent yourself to the DWP. *4

    What is not legal is misrepresenting yourself, or omitting relevant facts.

    In what way are any of the above more or less odious than people trying to reduce their salary artificially so not to get hit by the child benefit cap, estate planning to reduce or eliminate inheritance tax, or the complicated tax structures many of the really rich employ so they pay a significantly lower percentage on their earnings than their cleaners.

    I would be _extremely_ surprised if the vast majority of the current governments cabinet does not without thought employ accountants to minimise their tax burden.


    1. The usual limit for CA is 100/week - however subtracted from this is one half of contributions to a private pension.
    2. There is legislation about deprivation of capital - however capital is not income. Funds moved into a trust during the period they are paid for never become capital.
    3. While recently problematic likely due to the increased crackdown on people being found not to be gainfully self-employed at low earnings, it's quite possible to do permitted work for >16 hours, earning £20 or below (on average), and qualify for tax credits.
    4. The legal test is generally 'Living together as husband and wife' - Even if you are husband and wife - with children - if you have never lived together sharing one house, you are in most aspects treated as single by the benefits system.

    Please note, I'm not a professional skilled in these matters, and while the above is as far as I know correct and inarguable according to the regulations, there is significant risk if you do any of the above, and I'm wrong.
  • Foxn86Foxn86 Forumite
    92 Posts
    I do own my house. My wife owns two more in the Philippines and an apartment in Australia. It is true that I don't own my car, because I currently don't have one. ;)

    Seriously. You are right. We had a case recently where an MP (Louise Mensch, who is no longer an MP) had her kids death-threatened by some idiot. The police traced him, and it turned out to be some lonely 60-something who lived in a constituency that was nowhere near the one Mrs Mensch represented. When his case came to court, he never turned up, because he said he couldn't leave the house because he had agoraphobia. So there are sad people out there who hide behind their laptops.

    In my experience there are a fairly high number of trolls on this forum. There are also a lot of people who use several handles. I was recently assailed on another thread by three handles. I could tell by their levels of intelligence and the gaps in their knowledge, that they were almost certainly the same person. I suppose it is the price one pays for free speech!

    I agree that people have a real go at those who are on benefits on this forum. There are people who are outraged at people on benefits. People fall on hard times, and have had to resort to living on benefits at some time or other. And, as I live in a poor area, I know that jobs are hard to find right at this time. And things could get worse. There seem to be far more people on this forum who are outraged by benefits than you would find in real life.

    I have stopped giving advice pn finance and law; and I have stopped asking for advice, because what happens is that one person gives advice, then another comes and gives you the opposite advice. (And you can be sure that bad advice is given deliberately.) The OP is left more confused than ever.

    It might help if you look around threads as you are reading them, find out who the idiots are, and put them on ignore before you encounter them.

    I know there are many wealthy people who own all their possessions outright. I have met many of whom are lovely people. What i was getting at was i have came across so many people with their nose so high in the air. I am a young mother who also happens to look younger by a good few years.

    I often get little remarks and assumptions, which gets at me especially when me and my hubby have worked for everything we have. And i like to remind those people who try to make others feel bad they are simply no better than anyone else.

    And i don't blame the people on benefits, if someone offered me £500 plus per week, mobility cars which you can get BMWS, carers allowance, councils house with rent paid, free school meals and uniform grants. Then i would find it hard to find motivation to go work and let's be honest who wouldn't ? but i like to earn my money keeps me sane and some self respect.

    I had to laugh at the woman on lorraine today ITV. Moaning she could not live off £500 per week, with 7 kids. Now i cant understand with her rent getting paid how she cannot feed them all well off £500 per week. Its the state that's caused the spongers and if you allow a certain type of behavior then of course people will behave that way.

    But people who genuinely need help should get it there's a lot who do. And a lot don't want to be in the situation they are.
  • Foxn86 wrote: »
    Now i cant understand with her rent getting paid how she cannot feed them all well off £500 per week.

    If you are referring to the £500 benefit cap, it includes rent. In fact, housing benefit is cut to keep overall payments below £500 per week.
  • Foxn86Foxn86 Forumite
    92 Posts
    Morlock wrote: »
    If you are referring to the £500 benefit cap, it includes rent. In fact, housing benefit is cut to keep overall payments below £500 per week.
    I thought It was £500 excluding the house, well I suppose that does tighten things a good bit more. But with places like aldi etc she can defo have them all fed proper meals on a lower budget.
  • CoopdiviCoopdivi Forumite
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    woodbine wrote: »
    people/threads same difference:p
    and in case you didnt read the note on the door this forum is for questions about benefits nothing more nothing less

    If that was the case nobody would get any answers.
  • The_ThrillaThe_Thrilla Forumite
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    Foxn86 wrote: »
    I know there are many wealthy people who own all their possessions outright. I have met many of whom are lovely people. What i was getting at was i have came across so many people with their nose so high in the air. I am a young mother who also happens to look younger by a good few years.

    I often get little remarks and assumptions, which gets at me especially when me and my hubby have worked for everything we have. And i like to remind those people who try to make others feel bad they are simply no better than anyone else.

    And i don't blame the people on benefits, if someone offered me £500 plus per week, mobility cars which you can get BMWS, carers allowance, councils house with rent paid, free school meals and uniform grants. Then i would find it hard to find motivation to go work and let's be honest who wouldn't ? but i like to earn my money keeps me sane and some self respect.

    I had to laugh at the woman on lorraine today ITV. Moaning she could not live off £500 per week, with 7 kids. Now i cant understand with her rent getting paid how she cannot feed them all well off £500 per week. Its the state that's caused the spongers and if you allow a certain type of behavior then of course people will behave that way.

    But people who genuinely need help should get it there's a lot who do. And a lot don't want to be in the situation they are.

    No, I has being light hearted.

    Yes, if people are handing out money, there are some who will take advantage. Not long ago I was listening to an American multi-millionaire who was talking about their unemployment benefit. Their system is different. Your unemployment cheques run out after a period of time. Recently, the US government have been extending the unemployment cheques. Anyway, this now-multi-millionaire said that this was wrong, and the government should stop unemployment payments right away. No one took him seriously, because he let it slip out that when he was younger, he signed on for unemployment cheques, and , instead of looking for work, he went down to the beach. A lot of people have done that sort of thing:)...including the ones who feign outrage.
  • RuthnJasperRuthnJasper Forumite
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    :oI have a confession, Up until a few years a go, I am ashamed to say I had the same attitude as the Benefit Bashers and I feel ashamed:o
    Then my sister -in-law got Alzhimer's I have seen the hoops she had to jump through to get a pittance, her experience with ATOS was not as bad as some, she admits with out the support of her family she would not have coped, some people don't have the support, and have to come to places like this, there are some very caring and supportive people here, but a small minority make me cringe with disgust. I am so sorry for my disgusting attitude as I have seen both sides of the fence:o

    "Walk a day in their shoes"

    That's a very honest post, Fingle. Much kudos to you. :T

    Not a single one of us is perfect - we ALL make mistakes and errors of judgement. It takes good sense to realise where we've gone wrong and a great deal of bravery to admit it.

    I sincerely wish you and your family the very best for the future. x
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