GCSE Foundation Tier - How to appeal decision?

Shelldean

flashnazia wrote: »

He's just told me his whole set have been put on foundation tier. He is in a top tier set (group 3 set 1).

My boys are currently y 12 and yr 9.
My boys all started some of their GCSEs in yr 9.
My youngest has sat various Modules of his science GCSE this yr and he's still only yr 9

One of the twins, was good in Maths, other not so,yet both were placed in foundation group. But the twin that was good sat his exam earlier than his brother, achieving that golden C. He then went on to sit the higher paper, while his brother continued and completed the foundation course at his own slower pace. Second twin sat his exam at the end of yr 11 and also got a C.

So maybe your brother's school does something similar.

another option for those who passed the foundation papers early and gained a C, and it was felt they wouldn't gain a higher grade by sitting the higher paper. They then spent extra time that would've been spent on the orginal subject, on other subjects, usually a core subject that they was weaker on. This meant they obtained C grade in every thing, as they had spent more time on their weaker subjects.

Savvy_Sue

There was some dithering over whether DS3 would be put in for the Foundation or the Higher level in English, because he was not 'engaging' with the exam questions (aka sitting and staring around the room because he found the questions boring and couldn't be bothered to answer them.)

School gave him a mix of papers to do over the Easter holiday, and they were very similar. But as I said to DS3, he'd need to score higher on the Foundation paper to get a C than he would on the Higher paper, so to me it made more sense to go for the Higher.

There may be a reason for it, but you're more likely to get it changed if you can get a group of parents on the case, and first get some understanding of the whys.

daisiegg

GCSEs are changing. GCSEs have changed. The fiasco with the English results last summer (which we are anticipating will be repeated this year) has meant that teachers have had to really rethink what they expect certain students to get, as people who in the past would have been secure Bs only got Cs last year, and so on. I don't think a 4a in Year 6 necessarily means that someone is going to be capable of a B at GCSE, at all. But what would be more relevant would be his end of KS3 level. Can you find that out? It would probably be in any recent reports or tracking he has received or any he receives between now and the end of term.

We often get these problems with parents wanting their child to be entered in for Higher Tier, no matter what. What you need to understand is that teachers WANT their students to do as well as possible. Even a teacher who doesn't care about the kids (rare in my experience!) knows that their students doing well looks good for them, so there is absolutely no reason for a teacher to not want their students to do as well as possible. When we put students in for Foundation tier it is because we genuinely believe, in our professional judgement, that they have more chance of achieving a C that way.

However, some things seem strange in your story. Firstly, decisions about entry tier should not be made based on entire classes. There is absolutely no reason why some members of the class can't do Higher and some do Foundation. The teaching is not that different that the teacher can't differentiate within the class, as they should be doing anyway. Secondly, the school doesn't need to make this decision until a few months before the exams at the end of Y11, so why on earth are they saying it now? We do not decide on tiers of entry until after the mock exams in January of Y11, by which point the students have done all of their Controlled Assessments and there is lots of evidence to go on.

If I were your parents, I would be requesting a meeting with the Head of English. My advice would be to be very calm, state that you will accept their professional judgement IF after having done his Controlled Assessments and done mock papers, they decide that Foundation would be best for him - but not before that! Explain that you would like him to have at least the possibility in his mind of achieving more, and that this will make him more likely to work extremely hard over the next two years to prove himself capable of achieving that B.

Another thing that might be affecting the teachers' decisions is the fact that for the current Year 9, it looks very likely that Speaking and Listening will be removed from the English Language GCSE. This is going to make it even harder for students to achieve well, because it was worth a sizeable chunk, and it was often the case that students who were weaker in their written work could still be really outgoing and articulate and good at role play and debates and presentations. Without this, it means everything is entirely going to be based on written work (don't get me started on that - what do you think future employers are going to care more about - that people can write a story, or that they can speak in front of a group or give a coherent presentation?!) and this inevitably means that some students will be achieving lower grades than they would otherwise have done.

Good luck to your brother whatever happens...tell him not to be too disheartened and not to give up. They can't possibly make this decision now and I can't see any logic in it either. I suspect that it wouldn't be a concrete decision, anyway - I would imagine that if some of the members of that class did well over the two years and produced B grade Controlled Assessments, they would still definitely put them in for Higher. It would be mad not to...

Spendless

Save_me wrote: »

A few years ago now ;-) I was moved down a set in Maths and wasn't challenged at all. I completed lessons within 15 minutes and was told to just sit and wait for the others to catch up. What made it worse was the decision not to let me even try to gain a Grade C at GCSE. My parents complained and I got moved back up to the previous set. At the Mock Exam, I achieved the highest mark in the class. It's worth speaking to the teacher as Maths is so important and your child will only have to re-take at a later date! The best thing I did was get myself a revision guide and learn at my own pace. I improved no end from this! Good Luck!

My son who is in yr 8 was threatened with exactly the same thing (moving down a set) in Maths shortly before Feb 1/2 term this year. As I've experienced what he does when the work becomes easy enough for him not to be challenged (use the time to mess around!). I rang a Maths tutor and paid for some 1-2-1 sessions. Within 2 x 1hr sessions I saw a difference, 6 sessions later the threat was no longer there. It's the only subject son has exceeded his target in this year!

Reading this thread with interest as son's greater weakness is in English. Hope you get things sorted OP.

pollypenny

I can reiterate daisiegg's post.

No teacher would enter a child for a lower tier than his/her capabilities. However, Y9 is far too early for the final decision.

KS3 levels will have been used for setting into Y10. I'm sure the Head of English would be happy to discuss any setting on their basis.

In my experience, it was generally a the level of sophistication with language that determined success at English.

However, OP, your brother has two years to go. It's too early to worry.

securityguy

I would confirm what was said, by writing to the school, first. As others have pointed out, it seems bizarre that they would be worrying about tiering in year 9.

Unless, of course, it's one of the schools that enters for English earlier than the end of Y11. OFSTED is supposed to be clamping down on that, because entering foundation tier in Y10 is clearly detrimental compared to entering higher in Y11, which they might well have been able to do with aj extra year's teaching. Children should only be entered early for subjects if they are a certainty to get an A*, otherwise the extra teaching would be better. The evidence is that early entry is used mostly by weak schools with weak candidates, so as to give more opportunities for retakes, but almost inevitably has the effect of pushing down the grades attained.

When Gove's banging on about low aspirations in some schools, he means English teachers making premature decisions to enter for foundation and then saying that you only need a C anyway.

Shelldean

pollypenny wrote: »

I can reiterate daisiegg's post.

No teacher would enter a child for a lower tier than his/her capabilities. However, Y9 is far too early for the final decision.

KS3 levels will have been used for setting into Y10. I'm sure the Head of English would be happy to discuss any setting on their basis.

In my experience, it was generally a the level of sophistication with language that determined success at English.

However, OP, your brother has two years to go. It's too early to worry.

I realise I am talking about maths, but i would've thought similar case?

My twin son was entered into foundation, despite the fact he was capable of doing higher, so this does happen!!.
But i do agree the final decision wasn't made until much later, in yr 10 or 11 depending on the child.
He did his foundation at some point in yr 10, then went on to do the extra? work to sit the higher exam, which he sat at end of yr 11.
The other twin complated his foundation in I believe the Nov of yr 11, it was decided he wasn't a candidate for the higher exam, so his maths lessons then became extra english lessons (a weak subject for him) The extra lessons were to ensure he got a C in English too. Other boys switched from Maths to etra Science. As the school wants all boys to have A-C in Maths, English and Science.

Yes my son's school sits them early and can sit them several times to make sure they (the school) look good on paper (dont get me started on that issue :mad:)

My sons school only cares that everyone get A-C grades, and do allsorts to ensure it happens. They cant be the only school doing this surely?

pollypenny

Funnily enough, my school did enter pupils early for maths. We never did in English.

securityguy

Shelldean wrote: »

Yes my son's school sits them early and can sit them several times to make sure they (the school) look good on paper (dont get me started on that issue :mad:)

As Ofsted said:

The use of early entry is found across all types of school but is much less common in schools with higher levels of attainment on entry. Schools with low standards and that have been judged in inspections to be no better than satisfactory, appear to be using early entry more extensively.

http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/schools-use-of-early-entry-gcse-examinations

fredtheguava

securityguy wrote: »

Unless, of course, it's one of the schools that enters for English earlier than the end of Y11. OFSTED is supposed to be clamping down on that, because entering foundation tier in Y10 is clearly detrimental compared to entering higher in Y11, which they might well have been able to do with aj extra year's teaching. Children should only be entered early for subjects if they are a certainty to get an A*, otherwise the extra teaching would be better. The evidence is that early entry is used mostly by weak schools with weak candidates, so as to give more opportunities for retakes, but almost inevitably has the effect of pushing down the grades attained.

The 'extra year's teaching' you refer to doesn't exist, in any practical sense. Previously, English Language and English Literature (2 separate GCSE courses) were taught concurrently. Both require a similar amount of time and energy. In terms of early entry, what it has meant in the day-to-day teaching, in all the schools I've worked in, is that we focus solely on English Language for just over a year, then Literature for the rest of the time. The amount of teaching time devoted to each GCSE remains roughly the same, it's just the order of things that has changed.