GS4 Parking Charge Notice - Any advice?

nbrown26

I've used a template from this website to respond to a "Contractual Parking Charge Notice" from GS4 for Maybird Retail Park in Stratford Upon Avon. We were permitted to 240 minutes"free" parking and over stayed by 75 minutes. The entire time was spent shopping and having lunch with our children.

The response from GS4 is listed below (sorry for the length), but should I respond to this or POPLA? Or should I just ignore?

The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (""the Act), (Schedule 4), which governs parking on private land, provides a definition for "parking charge" and "adequate notice" of such private parking charges. The relevant sections of Schedule 4 to the Act state:
"parking charge"

(a) in the case of a relevant obligation arising under the terms of a relevant contract, means a sum in the nature of a fee or charge, and

(b) in the case of a relevant obligation arising as a result of a trespass or other tort, means a sum in the nature of damages ...

... "relevant obligation" means
(a) an obligation arising under the terms of a relevant contract; or
(b) an obligation arising, in any circumstances where there is no relevant contract, as a result of a trespass or other tort committed by parking the vehicle on the relevant land; ...

... The reference in the definition of "parking charge" to a sum in the nature of damages is to a sum of which adequate notice was given to drivers of vehicles
(when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land).
For the purposes of sub-paragraph (2) “adequate notice” means notice given by:
... (b) ... the display of one or more notices which
(i) specify the sum as the charge for unauthorised parking; and
(ii) are adequate to bring the charge to the notice of drivers who park vehicles on the relevant land.

In this instance a parking charge has been issued based on the fact that the driver of your vehicle entered into a contract with us (by the act of parking the vehicle) and our signage (which states the terms and conditions of parking) was clearly displayed in the car park, thereby giving ""adequate notice"" of the amount of the parking charge.

The Act therefore permits parking charges to be rendered on private land, and the case of Parking Eye Limited v Somerfield Stores Limited [2012] EWCA Civ 1338 (Court of Appeal) decided that (taking into account inflation) the parking company was entitled to claim a parking charge of a similar amount to that which we have charged.

You should also be aware that the amount of our parking charges accords with the recommendations of the British Parking Association, of which we are a member.

You now have a number of options from which to choose:

1. Pay the Parking Charge Notice at the prevailing price of £42.00 within 14 days. Please note that after this time the discounted rate will no longer apply and the Parking Charge Notice will rise to £70.00. Payment of your Contractual Parking Charge Notice can be made via the payment line: 0845 452 7777 or by sending a cheque or postal order to G24 Limited, PO Box 3320, Gerrards Cross, Buckinghamshire, SL9 8WT.

2. Make an appeal to POPLA - The Independent Appeals Service by completing the accompanying form or by making your appeal online. Your POPLA verification code is: xxxxxxx. Please be advised that if you opt for independent arbitration of your case, the ability to pay the parking charge at the reduced rate of £42.00 will be at end. If you opt to pay the parking charge you will be unable to appeal to POPLA.

3. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.

Stroma

They are speaking complete garbage, the next step is to use popla to get this cancelled, we can help with this. Have a look at this website to see what is needed in a popla appeal, also do a search on here for that, you'll find hundreds of threads.

https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk

nbrown26

I have now made an appeal to POPLA but what evidence, if any, should I provide? I have receipts to show that we were using the retail park during the whole period but I don't want to be giving any information that isn't relevant or gives them any ammunition to use against us.

Stroma

Can you post what you appealed with, when we offer help with popla we need to see what has been used. Thanks

nbrown26

Thank you for your appeal. Please find a summary of your details below:

Operator code:
271

Why they are appealing:
Parked improperly
Charge exceeded

Appeal reasons:
I believe the charges to be excessive as free parking is permitted for 240 minutes. We had spent the entire duration on the retail park using the facilities and parked in a half full car park. We feel that it is an unfair and unreasonable charge as no damage or loss was caused and would like to know the full extent of the actual loss suffered by the business or of the landowner.

Stroma

I can guarantee that will fail, they don't do mitigation, you need something a lot stronger

Umkomaas

nbrown26 wrote: »

Thank you for your appeal. Please find a summary of your details below:

Operator code:
271

Why they are appealing:
Parked improperly
Charge exceeded

Appeal reasons:
I believe the charges to be excessive as free parking is permitted for 240 minutes. We had spent the entire duration on the retail park using the facilities and parked in a half full car park. We feel that it is an unfair and unreasonable charge as no damage or loss was caused and would like to know the full extent of the actual loss suffered by the business or of the landowner.

Have a look at some of these:

[URL="http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?

act=attach&type=post&id=21565"]POPLA Appeal - Example 1[/URL]

Example 2

Example 3

You can safely copy and paste appropriate elements from any or all of these. Draft up an appeal based around the examples and post it here for further refinement from the forum appeals experts.

HTH

nbrown26

I presume it's too late to add? I've read so many threads and I just don't see anything that relates directly to us just overstaying. Some of the suggested templates just seem to attach everything and again I really don't see the relation to our case.

I'm therefore onto the next level of waiting to see if they ever go through to the court stage.

Stroma

You are not going for your case as its mitigation, you need to take apart their entire basis of these charges completely. And you can add to the appeal up until they make the decision

Umkomaas

Stroma wrote: »

You are not going for your case as its mitigation, you need to take apart their entire basis of these charges completely. And you can add to the appeal up until they make the decision

........ and they are well behind schedule. What date has POPLA given for your appeal to be decided?

Coupon-mad

nbrown26 wrote: »

I presume it's too late to add? I've read so many threads and I just don't see anything that relates directly to us just overstaying. Some of the suggested templates just seem to attach everything and again I really don't see the relation to our case.

I'm therefore onto the next level of waiting to see if they ever go through to the court stage.

Firstly, do you mean G24? Never heard of GS4 and there is no AOS member of that name.

Do you mean you've actually sent that soft appeal to POPLA today? I do hope not, please tell us that isn't a submitted POPLA appeal. You'll lose if it is, it's such a waste!! as we always win these if only you use the right wording; it's easy. ALL POINTS are relevant to your 'overstay' case.

And if so - even if you have submitted that basic appeal - it is NOT too late to add.

- In what way is 'This car park has inadequate signage that's not compliant with the BPA Code of Practice' not relevant to your case? (Always is).

- In what way is 'the Notice to Driver doesn't stipulate the Creditor' not relevant to you?

- And what about 'I believe the PPC's contract (if any) with the landowner is non compliant with the BPA Code of Practice'?

- How about 'G24 do not have the legal status to offer parking as they do not own or have an interest in this land and are mere agents'?

- And what about 'There has been no loss and no breach and if the PPC alleges there is then they must show a breakdown of the genuine pre-estimate of loss'?

- And what about 'the charge is punitive, a penalty for breach which is unenforceable in any contract'?

- And as it's an overstay what about 'no grace period'?

- And if enforced by cameras what about saying their camera system and checks/maintainance are not compliant with the requirements of the BPA Code?

- And what about 'The Notice to Driver/owner is not compliant with Schedule 4 of the POF Act (or the timeline fails to meet the requirements of the POF Act 2012)'

See this link re checking your Notices/timeline, re the last point. Please just open your eyes to the mistakes this company have made and tell POPLA!:

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/keeper-liability/

And here is a POPLA appeal I wrote for someone regarding an overstay, surely you can see the relevance of most points there to your case as well, please don't let your eyes glaze over just because a decent POPLA appeal is long and cites court cases! The points here are pretty simple and were understood and used by a new poster for whom English isn't their first language, see post #4:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=79545&st=0&gopid=826768

And here is a newbie who listened and learnt and has just won at POPLA:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4646699

Look at his original thread he linked there, follow all the links & advice that he did, he included all sorts of challenge points in the end which you can use too. The most common one to win that we see is the point his decision turned upon - 'that the PPC has not shown the contract with the landowner and if they do then it's not compliant'. EASY.