Non- and Un-contacless credit card

gusgorman

Gromitt wrote: »

Fraudsters will continue to defraud people regardless of the payment method. We just need to make sure that when that happens, they can be refunded.

This is true - but one point keeps getting made and then conveniently ignored by all the "pro contactless" people.

That is - if you don't want to use contactless then you are better off not having it on your card, because then the risk of contactless fraud is zero.

Yes - you will still be exposed to the risks involved in any other payment method you choose, whether that be cash, chip and pin, or any other, but that is your choice.

mustar

Hello MSE users,

I have followed all the debates regarding this matter and always wanted to post something that for me is common sense.

If we needed a faster and simplified method of payment for small amounts of money, why not just remove the need to enter the PIN for payments that are less than 20 pound? It is just as easy and simple as "contactless"(for which, as a matter of fact, you still need to touch the reader), you insert the card for 2-3 sec and then take it out.

"Contactless" in credit/debit cards (and in general for almost* anything that involves an object, that can otherwise be equipped with a classic chip, to be present) brought no improvement, quite the opposite, it lowered the level of security and privacy. And this without mentioning the huge costs involved, that ultimately will be passed to consumers.

*an exception being transport cards, because of the volume of wear a single card reader involves

Gromitt

gusgorman wrote: »

Yes - you will still be exposed to the risks involved in any other payment method you choose, whether that be cash, chip and pin, or any other, but that is your choice.

I agree, but the banks will (are) arguing that having two different cards (with and without contactless) is both a logistical and manufacturing problem. Its much cheaper to have everything in the one product.

mustar wrote: »

why not just remove the need to enter the PIN for payments that are less than 20 pound? It is just as easy and simple as "contactless"(for which, as a matter of fact, you still need to touch the reader), you insert the card for 2-3 sec and then take it out.

I have had that happen in some shops, not many I must say. Others request the PIN and then immediately say "Remove card" before the authorisation is complete.

However, your not thinking like a banker. Think "How can we make more money". Thinking licensing rights, think of shops having to upgrade their equipment. Your method would require none of this.

gusgorman

Gromitt wrote: »

I agree, but the banks will (are) arguing that having two different cards (with and without contactless) is both a logistical and manufacturing problem. Its much cheaper to have everything in the one product.

Well that pretty much hits the nail on the head in terms of the real reason. However many banks (eg CO-OP) aren't actually giving that as the reason if you write to them about it.

anon_ymous

Fertilizer wrote: »

I don't want banks to send me unrequested contactless cards because:
a) I want to control what I spend and how

Same sort of issue with "normal" cards

Fertilizer wrote: »

b) I don't trust them

With all due fairness, I don't trust them either, and Im not fond of them, purely because they are a security hole, though they are nice to use. BUT that's why you have guarantees.

I mean it's probably safer to go in to your bank, withdraw x amount of money and go the shops, than to pay by card, but banks have guarantees

Fertilizer wrote: »

c) I don't want multiple wallets
d) I don't want to worry which wallet pocket it is in
e) I don't want to worry about what's behind me

I don't understand this. Multiple wallets. Wallet pockets? What? It just replaces your current card. And you run the same risk of someone behind you shoulder surfing on a standard card.

Fertilizer wrote: »

f) I've never even seen a contactless machine

Mcdonalds, Greggs...

Fertilizer wrote: »

h) If I wanted to use contactless, then I would get a single card specifically for the purpose - with a finite amount of cash on it so I know the maximum I can lose

AFAIK, the "maximum" "you" can "lose" is £50, because after around £50 worth of spending, your card asks for your pin again. But you can spend around £20 in one sitting. And you wouldn't lose the money. The card company would

Fertilizer wrote: »

i) I most definitely do NOT want a contactless debit card which represents my real bank account giving someone the opportunity to clean me out. (Please don't waste your time trying to convince me otherwise - the reader needs your details to collect the money ...).

Unless you only have £50 in your account, you're not going to have your account cleaned out.... And even then there's guarantees in place

It's definitely a security hole, but it's a bit hyperbolous on your part

Fertilizer wrote: »

Anyone trying to convince me contactless is safe is simply wasting their time. Anything "safe" today, could be very unsafe tomorrow.

Im not trying to tell you that it's "safe" because well nothing really is. Debit cards aren't - they can be cloned, used online etc... Cash isn't safe - you could be robbed etc...

BUT with plastic, there are guarantees in place

Fertilizer wrote: »

Yes, they are easy, but so is sticking some fivers in your top pocket so people can help themselves - you can spend all that money whilst making absolutely no effort at all - marvellous. I'll happily leave that to others.

Bad analogy, when it'd be like someone saying "Here. Im gonna go leave £50 on the table. If it goes missing, Ill pay" That's kinda like your bank. Your bank gives guarantees

Fertilizer wrote: »

Non - I would like to replace my Capital One reward card with another reward card which is non-contactless and staying that way. Does anyone have any information on such cards ?

See the MSE article on cashback cards. I have a Nationwide select card

cos_2

Gromitt wrote: »

I agree, but the banks will (are) arguing that having two different cards (with and without contactless) is both a logistical and manufacturing problem. Its much cheaper to have everything in the one product.

I don't think that's true. Both types of card are easily produced in one factory, and it's simple to allocate one or another to a consumer. I live near Dunfermline where millions of cards are printed every week. They don't seem to have a problem with making hundreds of different cards for the various CC companies.

anon_ymous

Fertilizer wrote: »

You obviously can't read

"I look forward with interest to all replies from non-complacent people with their suggestions ..."

Luddite ? No. I work in IT actually. You know ... that modern, high technology stuff ...

Sorry, you shouldn't really insult people like that. You give all the IT people a bad name, and for the record, I recognise the security hole, but I also recognise that their are *some* security checks in place, and that there are guarantees