electric car

andy13

http://www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/models

Tesla Model S.
300 mile range.
0-60 in 4.2 seconds. (Faster than a BMW M5)

Reserve now for 2014 delivery for only £30,000 deposit _pale_

Ultrasonic

andy13 wrote: »

http://www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/models

Tesla Model S.
300 mile range.
0-60 in 4.2 seconds. (Faster than a BMW M5)

Reserve now for 2014 delivery for only £30,000 deposit _pale_

Yup, knew about that, that's why I said for sensibe money .

silverwhistle

An electric car wouldn't suit my usage patterns, mileage or available capital but I can't allow some of your points to go unchecked:

izools wrote: »

I would steadfastly advise against buying an electric car. Points to consider:

3. Cost of running said diesel would be in the realm of 12p / Mile - which is similar to the cost alone of replacing a electric car's battery let alone the cost of recharging the thing (yes, it still costs if you have solar panels, as that's money you wouldn't be getting back from the electricity supplier)
4. Refilling takes five minutes, not eight hours
5. Cost to the environment is normally less - as the manufacturing processes involved in creating a something thousand cell li-ion battery is VERY VERY DAMAGING to the environment
7. Servicing cost much reduced - you don't need to spend £7,500 on a new battery every 12,000 miles
8. If you want to travel more than 100 miles, you don't need to book into a Travel Lodge half way to your destination

3. That shows you don't know how solar power works in the UK. In fact, as it currently stands with a notional % of export units it pays to use as many units as possible of those you generate.
4. There are fast charging facilities available which could mean a substantial charge in half an hour. Charging point numbers may be limited at the moment but things are changing.
5. COULD YOU GIVE A LINK? There may be issues, as with most exploitation of natural resources, but at least li-ion batteries are 90%+ recycleable.
7. Servicing costs reduced? A modern Euro5 diesel with DMF (dual mass flywheel) and DPF (diesel particulate filter) needing less servicing, let alone clutch, engine, etc. etc?! Battery life is far more than 12,000 miles: and £7,500 for a replacement battery? Where did you get those figures from?
8. See point 4 above: you don't need to stay overnight although you might want a second cuppa whilst you wait.

As I say, an electric car wouldn't suit my usage patterns - low annual mileage in fewer but long trips, but the technology is maturing all the time and I would advise the original poster to do a fair bit of research before deciding. Perhaps a hybrid might suit them?

At least it's good to see that electric and hybrid cars are actually manufactured in the UK.

Frankly hydrogen at the moment has far more technical problems to overcome than electric to be a viable solution for personal transport.

silverwhistle

Ultrasonic wrote: »

3) The limited range will be a problem for virtually every driver who buys one on some occasions.

Oh absolutely! All cars have particular issues. Many years ago a potential lodger lost interest because I didn't have a drive and he was afraid of his Porsche being keyed. A Porsche wouldn't suit me a lot of the time due to a need to carry stuff and people. Many households have two cars or hire to meet such different needs. As I said in my other post, you get a vehicle that best suits your needs and circumstances, and that certainly could be electric.

Ultrasonic

silverwhistle wrote: »

Oh absolutely! All cars have particular issues. Many years ago a potential lodger lost interest because I didn't have a drive and he was afraid of his Porsche being keyed. A Porsche wouldn't suit me a lot of the time due to a need to carry stuff and people. Many households have two cars or hire to meet such different needs. As I said in my other post, you get a vehicle that best suits your needs and circumstances, and that certainly could be electric.

I take your point, but for me not being able to drive wherever you want whenever you want is a rather more fundamental limitation than for example not being able to fit a sofa into the back of a Fiesta. And I'm yet to be convinced that there is any upside to owning an electric car.

Although I will admit that there is an argument for electric cars in large cities, where displacing the pollution to the site of electricity generation would be beneficial.

forgotmyname

Didnt the Tesla break down a lot when they had one on Top Gear or 5th Gear?

Imp

Ultrasonic wrote: »

3) The limited range will be a problem for virtually every driver who buys one on some occasions. Even for those with a daily commute within range, very few people take no longer trips over the course of a year. People have been working on electric cars for a while now, so suddenly expecting 300 mile + range is optimistic (for sensible money) I'd have thought. Not that I've researched this so I'm quite prepared to be proved wrong!

It's a good job the early adopters of the petrol engine weren't as backward. Petrol was only available from a small number of candle factories as a byproduct of candle manufacturing. If you run out where no-one is selling it, you're stuck. As for range, it was considered a significant achievement to get from London to Brighton without a major breakdown.

Didn't have any of these problems with a horse and cart.

sterlingstash

I've just got an electric car (the Nissan Leaf). It is fantastic to drive, packed with luxuries (keyless entry, satnav, reverse camera etc) and fits my daily commuting pattern very well.

But it is not for everyone. It works best for people who
* drive regular journeys well within comfortable range , say 50 miles a day (or 100 miles providing you can charge at work for 6-7 hours during a day)
* have a convenient charging point either at home or at work (or both for 70-80 mile+ round trips)
* have access to another vehicle for long journeys (eg second car)


In terms of costs, for me the car is far cheaper than running any other vehicle you could name, new or used. It was a company car purchase so I am benefiting from the tax savings that companies get. It was also purchased with the heavy discounts recently on offer. £18k minus the 20% tax writedown on EVs (first year allowance) so £14.5k.

I calculate annual fuel savings to be approaching £2000 (12000 per year, free charging at place of work)
no road tax
free servicing for 3 years

The savings mean that the car would pay for itself within the 7 year battery/drivetrain warranty period, compared to running my old car, even if it is worthless at the end.

The numbers aren't as compelling for a private purchase however. The big issue for the private purchaser is the unknown depreciation. Leasing would probably be the best bet if not running as a company car.

sterlingstash

To add to the above, I think that many of the dire predictions about EVs will turn out to be overplayed

Battery life - everyone said the Prius would be worthless after 5 years when battery failed. Most are still on original battery with big mileage and all the taxi companies around me seem to be using them now. Someone has just completed 78k miles in a Leaf and only just lost first battery capacity bar (-15%).

Residual value - I think a well spec'd car which can still muster a range of 50 miles and very low running costs will retain some reasonable value - in London it could save getting on £3k a year just in congestion charge exemption - hybrids like the Prius are due to have to pay in future.

Battery cells can be replaced individually to give a mid-life range boost. The costs are due to be announced soon, and may be expected to fall over time.

Wh05apk

forgotmyname wrote: »

Didnt the Tesla break down a lot when they had one on Top Gear or 5th Gear?

That famous impartial motoring program!

I think they used to say the same about diesels being slow and unreliable a few years ago as well, before the UK fell in love with diesels, now they seem to have changed their minds.