Husband facing custodial sentence - what about debts?

JimBobJones

tinkerbell28 wrote: »

Oh and op NEVER EVER believe people who tell you online they are a lawyer. Please seek proper advice.

I'm not a lawyer. I specialise in financial law for financial services, I draft contracts etc, I'm not in a court room representing the companies I work for.

Let me put this a different way, say what he's done is illegal. It's not but for the purpose of this thread say it is. It's already been done, it cannot be rectified, any detrimental effect from this will happen either way.

The application form says "any previous criminal convictions" he answers no, this is correct as he's not been convicted.

Under common UK law everyone is innocent until proven guilty, pending charges and sentencing cannot be used against you thus, they're not even allowed to ask you.

Fraud is deception to receive monies, meaning lying. If you are not asked for the information, you are not deceiving anyone. This is not fraud.

suburbanwifey

OP: be thankful for what he has done for you, he's done you a big favour if not himself one. Take him off the joint account, follow the poster who advised returning mail 'not at this address' and try to build your life without him whilst he is inside. He's left you in a good position, the best he can in the circumstances. Ignore the scaremongers, nothing will happen to you and he won't get done for fraud, fact.

suburbanwifey

onamissionEU wrote: »

OP you need to take proper legal advice on this. It is 99% likely that a court would view your husbands actions as fraud.
Whilst none of us can say for certain that we will wake up in the morning, we make plans and go about our lives with the assumption that we will not die in the middle of the night. The same assumptions are made when applying for loans. Just as you would be legally obliged to make potential creditors aware of an impending redundancy, say, or you would have to declare a family history of a serious disease for insurances purposes, your husband is obliged to make potential creditors aware that his income is very likely to dissapear after application.
IF the onus was on the bank to ask these questions the application forms would be hundreds of pages long.
There could also be implications regarding early release. May we ask for what your husband is likely to go to prison? If it is for fraud this could make matters even worse. SEEK LEGAL ADVICE

It wouldn't get as far as a court, not for 3K certainly not - fact. You are scaring the OP unfairly, she doesn't need legal advice, she has done NOTHING.

warwicktiger

JimBobJones wrote: »

The application form says "any previous criminal convictions" he answers no, this is correct as he's not been convicted.

Does that hold good if he has pleaded guilty or been found guilty of the original offence and is merely awaiting sentencing?

tinkerbell28

I would NEVER take the word of someone who claims to have legal qualifications on line.

This does have potential repercussions for him op. It is no different to asking for a loan, knowing he may file bankruptcy next week and not be able to pay it off. There would be legal repercussions as he knowingly obtained money he could not pay off. You are not bankrupt until that court stamps the document. Much like you are not guilty or sentenced until the court says so. So it could change.

Doesn't stop the repercussions if you took out finance knowing you were going to go bankrupt.

He has doen exactly the same here. People really should not be allowed to state as FACT what a company will or won't do, as they don't know.

Like wise people shouldn't be able to state legal qualifications and background, then offer advice. As one they could be held to account for it by professional bodies. Two it could well be a crock of crap, just to try and "win": an internet argument.

I'd ignore all of it op and get proper advice from a real life expert, and hopefully they will put your mind at rest.

Especially when the so called "expert" is telling you it will go to default, then CCJ and be statute barred in 6 years. A debt with a CCJ cannot be statute barred.

The_Boss

JimBobJones wrote: »

I'm not a lawyer. I specialise in financial law for financial services, I draft contracts etc, I'm not in a court room representing the companies I work for.

Let me put this a different way, say what he's done is illegal. It's not but for the purpose of this thread say it is. It's already been done, it cannot be rectified, any detrimental effect from this will happen either way.

The application form says "any previous criminal convictions" he answers no, this is correct as he's not been convicted.

Under common UK law everyone is innocent until proven guilty, pending charges and sentencing cannot be used against you thus, they're not even allowed to ask you.

Fraud is deception to receive monies, meaning lying. If you are not asked for the information, you are not deceiving anyone. This is not fraud.

You're looking into the application/ declaration and not weighing in other factors.

A judge would also look at why they took out the loan knowing this was a possibility. Why did they apply before being sentenced and not wait to see if they received a sentence? How can you state that a loan will be repaid over 'n' years in an application when you know that you would likely not be able to honour that with a possible sentence coming? It's a bit different from losing a job where at least you are free to seek further employment.

Even though the application process may have been followed and money paid to the OPs husband based on application data, there's still grounds for further action due to intent.

JimBobJones

warwicktiger wrote: »

Does that hold good if he has pleaded guilty or been found guilty of the original offence and is merely awaiting sentencing?

Yes, it's post sentencing, conviction is the final judgement of ascertained guilt, whether pleaded or found guilty. Final judgement is usually the sentencing unless appealed at a higher court.

marleyboy

Originally Posted by JimBobJones
I'm not a lawyer. I specialise in financial law for financial services, I draft contracts etc, I'm not in a court room representing the companies I work for.

To be fair, without trying to sound offensive. Just like all of us in the forums, you are simply an anonymous member offering advice.

OP should by all means seek professional advice, either via C.A.B or a legal representative and should not automatically assume the advice given by an anonymous poster, is factual and posted by a qualified advisor. I am sure the OP can put their mind at ease by seeing a qualified advisor than some digital sprite with no name, who claims to be one.

tinkerbell28

marleyboy wrote: »

To be fair, without trying to sound offensive. Just like all of us in the forums, you are simply an anonymous member offering advice.

OP should by all means seek professional advice, either via C.A.B or a legal representative and should not automatically assume the advice given by an anonymous poster, is factual and posted by a qualified advisor. I am sure the OP can put their mind at ease by seeing a qualified advisor than some digital sprite with no name, who claims to be one.

Especially when the so called "expert" has already given incorrect information. Saying a CCJ would be statute barred.

JimBobJones wrote: »

It's not illegal as this isn't one of the security questions on a loan application, not telling a loan company something they haven't asked isn't a crime and the CCA is quite clear it is the creditors responsibility to check ensure they are not lending money someone cannot pay back.

There will be no fraud charge for this loan. However it will default and very quickly go to a CCJ. If he goes to prison for 6 years it will be statute barred when he comes out and nearly off his credit file.

My advice would be to not pay anything towards it, you are not liable for it, they cannot pursue him for it because he's in no position to pay. What will happen is the creditor will get a CCJ for payments be reviewed for payments after your husbands release, that is of course if he's released within 6 years, if he's not its automatically statute barred and nothing is to be paid.

The CCJ will be applied for anyway in this situation, this is why I've advised to pay nothing towards it.

JimBobJones

tinkerbell28 wrote: »

I would NEVER take the word of someone who claims to have legal qualifications on line.

This does have potential repercussions for him op. It is no different to asking for a loan, knowing he may file bankruptcy next week and not be able to pay it off. There would be legal repercussions as he knowingly obtained money he could not pay off. You are not bankrupt until that court stamps the document. Much like you are not guilty or sentenced until the court says so. So it could change.

Doesn't stop the repercussions if you took out finance knowing you were going to go bankrupt.

He has doen exactly the same here. People really should not be allowed to state as FACT what a company will or won't do, as they don't know.

Like wise people shouldn't be able to state legal qualifications and background, then offer advice. As one they could be held to account for it by professional bodies. Two it could well be a crock of crap, just to try and "win": an internet argument.

I'd ignore all of it op and get proper advice from a real life expert, and hopefully they will put your mind at rest.

I'm not saying you should, I was merely pointing out I'm not a lawyer and never said I was, I said I have a law degree. I do.

This will be my last post on here, a lot of people are attempting to over dramaticise this and scare the OP, people of which have no legal knowledge.

When applying for credit under the 1974 Rehabilitation of Offenders act, you ONLY have to disclose unspent criminal convictions. it says that clearly, that is all you are obliged to disclose legally when applying for credit. As he has not been sentenced, he has no unspent conviction for this offence. There is the proceeds of Crime Act, I'm not familiar with it, in the sense it's not my area of specialty. So I've asked someone who does and it's not under the proceeds of crime unless his criminal history helped him apply for this loan. OR unless his assets have been seized by the courts. If either of these are true then he has committed a criminal offence, but only then.

That is the criminal side of the law. Anything else is under the Consumer Credit Act. The EU Consumer Directive which is now in force states it is the lenders responsibility to carry out checks for legibility before lending any monies.

If the OP wants to get legal advise they can as far as I'm concerned, but they will tell you no different. If me quoting relevant laws which you can read for yourself doesn't convince you, then nothing will short of visiting your local solicitor. The CAB would be able to advise on this as well, which is free.