PCN from New Generation Parking

Marjreen

Hello all. I'm sorry if this is a completely inappropriate thread. I have seen in others that there is a lot of advice, but I haven't seen any threads relating to dealing with New Generation Parking (NGP) and also my appeal wouldn't be eligible for POPLA to consider. I was hoping for some advice, please?

I visited a friend who lives in a large, gated community recently. There were no visitors spaces free so I parked on the kerb, making sure to tuck my car out of the way and not cause an obstruction. A little while later, another friend who was coming over rang me from the car park to say that a man was taking photos of my car. When I went down to it, there was a guy there who said he was a parking enforcement officer. When I explained I hadn't realised I couldn't park there and offered to move my car, he said it was too late as it was 'already in the system'. He was taking photos on an iPhone at the time and had no other gear with him, so I asked what 'system' he was referring to and he just shrugged at me and pointed out a sign saying there was no parking on roadways or pavements. Ironically enough, I had parked underneath this sign but had not seen it as I drove into the cul de sac - you obviously enter a junction on the left hand side of it, and the sign was about 15 feet up a pole on the other side of the junction, facing out into the main road.

After pointing out the sign, the man began walking back to his own car and when I looked at mine, I could see there was no ticket anywhere. I shouted this to him, and he walked back and fished an envelope out of his pocket. Inside was a 'notice to driver' with a box for him to write my registration, though he had not and this was blank. So much for his 'system'. I subsequently moved my car and drove around until I found an empty visitors bay in another street.

I didn't pay the charge and I have now received in the post another PCN, as the company has obtained my vehicle details from DVLA. I initially considered ignoring this as due to my job, I'm aware that these are invoices and not enforceable fines. However, I can see that the advice on the forums has changed and is now not to ignore the PCN.

Having checked POPLA, I can see that I can't use their appeal route as none of the circumstances fit. I'm therefore thinking of dusting off my law degree and fighting it myself (what's that old saying about a lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client? Luckily, I never went into the profession!). This would be on the following counts:

1. The charge is disproportionate and therefore unfair under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations. Parking was free; the PCN is £100, reduced to £50 if paid in 14 days (though having later checked the car park signs, they say £60 instead).

2. Particularly onerous terms and conditions, which I would suggest a £100 charge would be, have to be given special prominence. The signs are tiny and quite high up.

3. No contract was ever formed as I offered no consideration to the parking company, having paid no ticket fee. In addition, I had no intention to create legal relations with them as I was unaware of the fact that I was forming a contract; if I had, I would not have parked there. A contract also requires each party to deliver some kind of performance or action/benefit, and I can't see how me parking there would have bestowed any such benefit on them.

4. NGP have suffered no losses as a result of where I parked.

If anyone has any hints or tips, I'd be really grateful.

Coupon-mad

Marjreen wrote: »

Hello all. I'm sorry if this is a completely inappropriate thread. I have seen in others that there is a lot of advice, but I haven't seen any threads relating to dealing with New Generation Parking (NGP) and also my appeal wouldn't be eligible for POPLA to consider.

Having checked POPLA, I can see that I can't use their appeal route as none of the circumstances fit.

:eek:

OF COURSE YOU SHOULD APPEAL TO POPLA AS SOON AS YOU GET A POPLA CODE OR FORM FROM THESE SCAMMERS!!

OMG for a poster with a law degree are you really that easily put off appealing and taken in, just because of the generic headings?!

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/secret-reasons-you-can-use-in-your.html

Explains that POPLA will consider ANY grounds of appeal.

What on earth makes you think you can't tick 3 out of 4 of those boxes (all except the 'stolen' one) of course?!

But before you can appeal to POPLA you have to appeal to the company. There are several threads about NGP and some of your points are ones to include at POPLA, yes. But there's more than that!!

For now - in response to the postal Notice to Keeper you just received - send an 'appeal' but not like you'd think, and not naming the driver. Your challenge should be carefully worded so as to give NO INFORMATION, not even who was driving.

You could just use a very simple challenge at first, short but sweet like this one mentioned in a Britannia thread:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=79309

If you prefer to start with a strong 'legal challenge' to NGP (have some fun with it!!) then why not adapt and use parts of this template from the Parking Cowboys' website which you will see has lots of points - and again, it's written in the third person from the perspective of the registered keeper only and without giving away any details at all:

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/appeal-letter/

This blog is worth a read as well, very funny and also informative in several ways:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/

Make sure you tell us/pepipoo when you get your rejection letter and whether they have given you a POPLA code at that stage.

We can help you to word that stage appeal to win. As part of your challenge you'd be looking for breaches of the BPA code of practice (probably such as the wording of that letter you have now got, so keep it!) and demanding lots of evidence to be shown at POPLA.

We can show you examples of strong/winning POPLA appeals at that stage. We know how to beat these fake PCNs so trust us and pepipoo too, and DO NOT PAY.

Marjreen

Thanks - letter sent to the PPC. I wasn't put off appealing, that's why I said I was going to take it up with them directly. There's little point in appealing to a body if your appeal doesn't meet their grounds and on the face of it mine don't, though having now seen that document from POPLA's meeting I can see that I can try it.

Thanks again.

Coupon-mad

Marjreen wrote: »

Thanks - letter sent to the PPC. I wasn't put off appealing, that's why I said I was going to take it up with them directly. There's little point in appealing to a body if your appeal doesn't meet their grounds and on the face of it mine don't, though having now seen that document from POPLA's meeting I can see that I can try it.

Thanks again.

Yours do meet the grounds for appeal. But DO NOT just send a ''normal appeal' at POPLA stage or you will lose. Read any current threads about POPLA appeals (any PPC at all) and you will find links to examples of POPLA appeal wording designed to win. Best to show us your draft first when you are at that stage to make sure nowt is overlooked that you could simply win on.

saedi

Marjreen wrote: »

Hello all. I'm sorry if this is a completely inappropriate thread. I have seen in others that there is a lot of advice, but I haven't seen any threads relating to dealing with New Generation Parking (NGP) and also my appeal wouldn't be eligible for POPLA to consider. I was hoping for some advice, please?



My situation almost mirrors yours I have had 2 letters from NGP and just received one from Roxburghe - what else do I need to expect - how long does this go on for ? should we appeal or ignore ? does it affect the credit score ? :eek:

Stroma

Please create your own thread below , and read current advice, one parking issue to a thread - thanks

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163

Guys_Dad

Marjeen - ignore these 4 appeal points. I can't recall one victory using them as such.

Go to the POPLA Decisions sticky thread and read only from September forwards. You will see that most are won on the pre-estimate of loss point which relies on English law, Basically, as the "penalties" are on the signs in advance, they are liquidated damages and can only be the ADDITIONAL costs that a PPC has faced as a result of the contravention.

But they try to justify them by including operational costs such as signs, uniforms, wages, office costs etc which would still be there if you parked or not. This isn't allowed so they lose at POPLA.

Simple.

Stroma

This thread is months old guy so probably the OP situation has ended

Guys_Dad

Stroma wrote: »

This thread is months old guy so probably the OP situation has ended

Teach me not to read things properly !