BT changing T&C?

robmar0se

On Sunday all outgoing calls were barred. I subsequently found out this was because I hadn't paid the bill within 21 days - BT weren't to know that I had in fact instructed to make payment on the first business day after receipt of my salary, as I have always done. As far as I am aware I have not been advised of any changes to BT's T&C, has anyone else been advised?

Checking the BT website there are two statements.....

1. Late payment charge- £7.50 (not subject to VAT). You have to pay the late payment charge of £7.50 if we don't receive your full payment within five days of the date we send a red reminder bill”. 2 “Outgoing calls barred charge - £12 including VAT. We charge this after we lift outgoing call barring from a line. We only charge this if you didn't pay your bill by the date it was due

we haven't received any red reminder bills for some time.

Secondly elsewhere on the BT site is says

calls may be barred after 28 days for quarterly billing (or 21 days for monthly billing)

Well we receive quarterly bills, so either BT got it wrong, or they are reducing the periodicity and haven't got round to telling us.
I have suggested to BT that they change my statement/bill date, but they flatly refuse - not very constructive or helpful.

Has anyone else experienced any of these issues since the start of 2013?

Buzby

When your salary is paid is not of interest to BT. The fact remains the clock starts when the bill is generated, NOT the date you receive it or make arrangements to pay.

Within 5 days following non-payment you get automated nagging calls warning your payment is late as services will be restricted. The timeframes they suggest are being tightened - indeed it is all designed to leverage customers on to a DD mandate.

The additional downside is the time between the bill and the DD being taken is considerably less - meaning your opportunity to query and prevent an incorrect debit is now virtually impossible.

As BT now report to CRA's I suggest any debate on when they restrict any line for non-payment is moot, the damage to your file will be far greater. Quarterly rentals are on immovable dates - you pay when they want to, or go elsewhere.

robmar0se

Buzby wrote: »

When your salary is paid is not of interest to BT. The fact remains the clock starts when the bill is generated, NOT the date you receive it or make arrangements to pay.

Within 5 days following non-payment you get automated nagging calls warning your payment is late as services will be restricted. The timeframes they suggest are being tightened - indeed it is all designed to leverage customers on to a DD mandate.

The additional downside is the time between the bill and the DD being taken is considerably less - meaning your opportunity to query and prevent an incorrect debit is now virtually impossible.

As BT now report to CRA's I suggest any debate on when they restrict any line for non-payment is moot, the damage to your file will be far greater. Quarterly rentals are on immovable dates - you pay when they want to, or go elsewhere.

All you say I can't disagree with - it is what you don't say I would take issue with.

1. BT changes in policy represent a change in their T&C and effectively they should advise customers BEFORE they make these changes, just so that we can do as you suggest.

2. The fact that their website re charges and conditions doesn't reflect their new policies, is also contarry to good corporate behaviour, and I suggest weakens BT's position re complaints to Ofcom. They cant say one thing and do another!

3. These nagging calls, I haven't received as the account holder - other's who more regulary use/answer the phone, I gather subsequently have received them but put the phone down as they are assumed to be marketing calls. Phoning is an imperfect way to relay time-critical information as BT cannot guarantee that the person paying the bill will get the call promptly.

4. As to their refusal to change billing dates, my mind boggles at their inflexibility, no other institution who wants my business acts in such an arrogant manner Crass.

However I am still interested to hear from others who may have been affected by BT's recent changes.

PS I am following Ofcom's complaints procedure here, called them to complain, and sent a letter - whats the betting their answer will be along Buzby's reply?

Drachenfach

I'd be interested to know what answer (if any) you get.

BT have just restricted my line as well due to non-payment of a bill. Apparently they switched us to paperless billing (and sent an email to tell us so) and therefore felt no need to ring and point out we needed to pay until after they'd made the chop.

Clearly it would have behoven me to notice at some point that I hadn't paid a phone bill, but I am a bit miffed that I am expected to have been scouring my inbox for such an important message, just because BT got fed up with the cost of running their printer.

robmar0se

Drachenfach wrote: »

I'd be interested to know what answer (if any) you get.

BT have just restricted my line as well due to non-payment of a bill. Apparently they switched us to paperless billing (and sent an email to tell us so) and therefore felt no need to ring and point out we needed to pay until after they'd made the chop.

Clearly it would have behoven me to notice at some point that I hadn't paid a phone bill, but I am a bit miffed that I am expected to have been scouring my inbox for such an important message, just because BT got fed up with the cost of running their printer.

I sure will, the only thing is that BT /Ofcom says they have 8 weeks to respond. Then if BT fails to retract or offer a compromise, we will go to Ofcom etc. So it may well drag out.

As this is a formal complaint, I am not expecting BT's MSE correspondent to comment!

smos585

Same happened here. How can BT say one thing and do another. Even if Busby is right, it is total incompetence to implement changes without (i) making sure that customers are 100% aware, (ii) they ensure that their T&C are updated. Further replacing red letters with phone calls is not really a 100% alternative

Buzby

The ending of red bills came quickly, primarily because the used plain paper and had no red ink - the 'Reminders' (for a time) were black, until these gave way to phone calls.

However, despite all these indignations, the point remains this: since the bill is a regular feature either monthly or quarterly, is it the suggestion that if you do not have sight of a bill, no debt is owed?

A dangerous tactic for those who happily agreed BT could pass on your payment history to a CRA.

As for making their 'customers 100% aware' - just how would they achieve this? I object to being put in the position of a BT supporter, but a look at be forums will reveal months of bill stuffers or bank statements which (then) were sent regularly were not looked at, and still they complained!

As for the reminder calls not being effective - why do they have to be? It is simply a courtesy - and predates the service being restricted by a week or so. All networks do this, not only because they can, but because it is now so easy. In the past BT had to send an engineer to the local exchange with a small 'wedge' to lock out the line, this took time and effort and was usually the last resort. These days, it is the first - and remains a pretty effective one.

The Govt drive to smart utility metering will also mean your gas and electric supply will similarly be discontinued, and no need for an entry warrant - a keyboard will do.

It's called 'progress'. The secret to avoid restrictions is to either take responsibility for the services used and pay when demanded (which I agree can be hard work) or just give them a DD if you cannot be bothered to control your finances.

robmar0se

Buzby wrote: »

The ending of red bills came quickly, primarily because the used plain paper and had no red ink - the 'Reminders' (for a time) were black, until these gave way to phone calls.

However, despite all these indignations, the point remains this: since the bill is a regular feature either monthly or quarterly, is it the suggestion that if you do not have sight of a bill, no debt is owed?

A dangerous tactic for those who happily agreed BT could pass on your payment history to a CRA.

As for making their 'customers 100% aware' - just how would they achieve this? I object to being put in the position of a BT supporter, but a look at be forums will reveal months of bill stuffers or bank statements which (then) were sent regularly were not looked at, and still they complained!

As for the reminder calls not being effective - why do they have to be? It is simply a courtesy - and predates the service being restricted by a week or so. All networks do this, not only because they can, but because it is now so easy. In the past BT had to send an engineer to the local exchange with a small 'wedge' to lock out the line, this took time and effort and was usually the last resort. These days, it is the first - and remains a pretty effective one.

The Govt drive to smart utility metering will also mean your gas and electric supply will similarly be discontinued, and no need for an entry warrant - a keyboard will do.

It's called 'progress'. The secret to avoid restrictions is to either take responsibility for the services used and pay when demanded (which I agree can be hard work) or just give them a DD if you cannot be bothered to control your finances.

Buzby, you may object to being called a BT suipporter, but thats what you're doing!!

You fail, as does BT to recognise that BT cant say one thing (as per their written T&C) and do another. BT is the largest supplier of phone services in this country, this sort of behaviour is crass and irresponsible.

As for your comment about managing finances, we don't pay by variable DD for exactly that reason, so we can manage our finances pro-actively; BT has been happy for us to do this for nearly 50 years. May I also suggest that what you call "progess", is more to do with increasing profits, by reducing the limit from 28 to 21 days - fine as long as they tell us first, so we are in a position to make alternative arrangements.

Do you get the point?

MillicentBystander

But don't forget you are getting 'free' BT Sports . What a laugh...

robmar0se

BT called today regarding my letter, said they would try and resolve the issue.

1. their idea of resolving was to use DD (which, and I agree with Buzby on this, is that the whole recent saga is to bully folks into using DD) - my reply was that I am paying £6 a quarter as we do not like variable dd mandates. That was their idea of a solution.
2. He said BT haven't changed their T&C (mistake?) - I pointed him to their T&C clause 31 which says

We will generally not suspend or end the service or the agreement for non-payment of your bill until 28 days after your payment was due (21 days if you pay monthly).

3.He said that BT hadn't ended the service, to which I asked him to re-read it, as it says "suspend OR end" (we had been suspended).
4. Re 21 or 28 days, he asked if I was on a monthly billing (another mistake), of course we are quarterly (ie 28 days). He then went on to say that it has always been 21 days - lies and more lies - I then provided him with details of previous payment dates from bank statements which rather stumped him as we regularly paid between 21 & 28 days and had not experienced this problem before.
5. He then tried to refer to other parts of the T&C, to which I said (i) he is not resolving the problem, and (ii) is circumventing the issue of the T&C and their recent actions.
6. I asked him if it was possible to change the statement dates (BT has unilaterlay changed it recently for 10 to 11th of the month), he said not possible - at least they are consistent on this point, even if it is unhelpful.
7. Finally asked him to do the right thing and formally reply to my letter.

robmar0se

Receieved letter today from BT, from the guy I spoke to, "Oliver". So full of errors, I called back again, and had a similar conversation. They just will not answer the 28 days statement in their T&C - just argue around it.

Eventually asked for a manager who did in fact call me back within a couple of hours. He immediately said there was an error on their part, he doesn't know how it happened but will fix it after the next bill is issued.

How it should work: In essense the new rules are if you pay by bill quarterly you have 28 days to settle, if you fail to do that you will be restricted to 21 days thereafter. If you are late in making payments, you will be charged £7.50 for a late payment, your outgoing calls will be suspended, and a £12 reconnect charge would be levied. People paying monthly only have a 21 day window.

Moral of the story? Don't be fobbed off by the first guy you speak to.