Flat buying - fire escapes go into nextdoor flats (!)

alexanderalexander

Hello all,

I am currently buying a maisonette, and I have found a rather odd issue. There are two fire escapes, each of which leads into the nextdoor maisonette either side! The doors for the escapes are about 3'6" tall so you'd have to crawl through them, and they are double-doored with a Yale lock on each side i.e. I would use a key to unlock the Yale lock on my side, but I could open the neighbour's side just by using the latch. This means I could enter the neighbours' flats at any time, and vice versa. Is this usual? What legal issues might arise from this?

I will be asking my solicitor of course (when she gets back from holiday), and scouring the lease when it arrives for any mention of the fire escapes -- but I thought it useful to ask for any "real world" views on whether this sort of thing is normal.

I asked the current owner about them, and she just suggested that no one had as yet ever gone through them but they were a valuable safety feature for the flat (which I agree they are!). I think one solution might be to hitch the doors up to my fire alarm system to prevent flippant / malicious use.

AndyPK

what do you mean by "double-doored"

How it would invalidate the insurance would be my concern.

Also in the event of a fire, you want to be sure you can get out of your neighbours flat. i.e they haven't double locked their front door as it's fairly pointless otherwise!

monty-doggy

Does this mean the flats are accessible from the outside? So anyone could enter?

Strapped

You may as well sleep with a bottle of chloroform and a "rape me" sign next to the bed. Hell no would I be buying such an arrangement.

zzzLazyDaisy

It's also pointless if the neighbours share your concern and have put a heavy piece of furniture on the inside of their fire door. I can't envisage this at all, but I would not be happy with the arrangement as you describe it. I don't think the seller's views help you - if they'd had problems with the neighbour's kids playing pranks by coming into their flat along the fire escape, do you really think they'd tell you about it? And what if they move out and the weird guy who buys their flat is.... well.... weird????

jamie11

I've seen something similar to this where a hatch led to the neighbour's balcony but there would be a locked balcony door to get through as well, but the fire would not be able to spread to a concrete balcony, I can't remember if there was an escape ladder on the balcony though.

alexanderalexander

AndyPK wrote: »

what do you mean by "double-doored"

As in there's a door on each side i.e. I'd have a door, my neighbour has a door, each with yale lock.

AndyPK wrote: »

Also in the event of a fire, you want to be sure you can get out of your neighbours flat. i.e they haven't double locked their front door as it's fairly pointless otherwise!

True, but if my flat was on fire I would probably still rather be in my nextdoor neighbour's flat which wasn't on fire, even if the front door was locked -- I would assess my options from there e.g. going onto the balcony and being rescued from there, or via a window.

monty-doggy wrote: »

Does this mean the flats are accessible from the outside? So anyone could enter?

No just the nextdoor flats.

Guest101

This should scream AVOID, if it hasn't i'll do it for you. AVOID AVOID AVOID. If this is the cheapest property there's a reason for it. And if not, you'll be able to find a better one for the same price.

[Deleted User]

An interesting arrangement, I think that if there's someone determined to break into your property then they will break in, so your concern with regards to this should not be "will it allow entry to my property" it should be "will it allow undetected entry to my property" and the latter can be trivial to counteract. As you said, some sort of lock system tied to the fire alarm system may be sensible although personally I would instead go for a system that sounds an alarm when the door is opened. If the fire alarm system failed during a fire you would probably feel more than awful if it roasted your neighbour.

If there is a fire that requires escape through this passage then an alarm triggering is of absolutely no concern because it would be a question of life or death. An alarm triggered by the door being opened that can only be disarmed by yourself would be trivial to acquire, probably for under £100.

Personally I wouldn't be opposed to having such a thing in a flat I lived in, as long as it's a reasonable area (so my neighbours aren't going to be bottom of the barrel people) and I could have some sort of alarm triggered when it was opened, I would be happy. Also it's worth considering this has been a feature since the flat was built (how long ago?) and it still exists, so it sounds like nobody else has had a problem with it. My neighbours routinely left their doors unlocked (as did I) in the flat I lived in a few years ago, same concept right?

I'm struggling to understand why this space exists though, is it a legal requirement? The flats I've lived in (above ground floor) had no special fire escapes, just the communal hall with a "do not lock" door.

alexanderalexander

citricsquid wrote: »

I'm struggling to understand why this space exists though, is it a legal requirement? The flats I've lived in (above ground floor) had no special fire escapes, just the communal hall with a "do not lock" door.

Thank you for your post -- I think that the approach you suggest is probably the most sensible, and I will follow it.

In answer to the specific question I quoted above, it may be required because the flat is split over three floors. One worry if it is required is whether, if it is necessary from a safety point of view, I can guarantee that my neighbours won't block it off from their sides.

cgk1

citricsquid wrote: »

An interesting arrangement, I think that if there's someone determined to break into your property then they will break in, so your concern with regards to this should not be "will it allow entry to my property" it should be "will it allow undetected entry to my property" and the latter can be trivial to counteract. As you said, some sort of lock system tied to the fire alarm system may be sensible although personally I would instead go for a system that sounds an alarm when the door is opened. If the fire alarm system failed during a fire you would probably feel more than awful if it roasted your neighbour.

Out of interest - if it's not locked the one side (say neighbour forgets) - are they actually breaking and entering?