Blue Labour

antrobus

Generali wrote: »

2 weeks ago only an idiot (me) would imagine that UKIP was taking votes from anyone other than the Tories....

UKIP recently nicked a council seat off Labour in Rotherham.

http://www.rotherham.gov.uk/info/1000/elections-results/2512/2013_rawmarsh_by-election_results

UKIP is (as I have recently realised) nothing more than Powellism redux, and Powellism always had a working class base.

alleycat`

antrobus wrote: »

UKIP is (as I have recently realised) nothing more than Powellism redux, and Powellism always had a working class base.

The problem with a statement like this is that it comes across, whether meant or not, that UKIP voters are therefore inherently racist.

Powell is before my time but i seem to believe he was crucified by the media and the political classes but had a huge amount of support from the general public(?)

It's very easy to put people in little boxes but i would hope that the majority of people are very broad in how they think.

antrobus

alleycat` wrote: »

The problem with a statement like this is that it comes across, whether meant or not, that UKIP voters are therefore inherently racist.

There's nothing I can do about that. Unfortunately people are perfectly free to misinterpret whatever they like. Doesn't change the fact that UKIP is essentially Powellist.

P.S. For the record, I'm quite well aware of the fact that neither UKIP, nor its voters, nor Mr Powell are or were "inherently racist".

alleycat` wrote: »

Powell is before my time but i seem to believe he was crucified by the media and the political classes but had a huge amount of support from the general public(?)

Basically, yes.

(Really before my time as well, but I read books.:))

alleycat`

antrobus wrote: »

(Really before my time as well, but I read books.:))

I read a lot of books too.

Enoch Powell and politicians in general are of little interest to me though.

TruckerT

Masomnia wrote: »

I thought that was a pretty poor and narrow minded piece, to be honest.

The Welfare State as it was founded bears no relation to what it has become. Beveridge, Bevan, Attlee et al would be turning in their graves if they could see the culture of dependency that has emerged.

As far as I can see Blue Labour is just going back to the founding principle of hand ups rather than hand outs; a safety net for those in need, without money for nothing. A welcome development for me.

As I have suggested on another thread, the welfare state was a socialist ideal, but socialism has not become a reality.

But the capitalist system in the Western world also wants to be seen as offering a level playing field to us all.

What can we do?

TruckerT

wotsthat

TruckerT wrote: »

As I have suggested on another thread, the welfare state was a socialist ideal, but socialism has not become a reality.

But the capitalist system in the Western world also wants to be seen as offering a level playing field to us all.

What can we do?T

What can we do about what?

Graham_Devon

Generali wrote: »

2 weeks ago only an idiot (me) would imagine that UKIP was taking votes from anyone other than the Tories.

Today the same idiot reckons that there are a large number of people who "aren't racist but..." in the UK and a lot of people who think like that vote Labour.

Why is it racist to want immigration control instead of open door immigration?

I'm struggling to understand this one.

TruckerT

wotsthat wrote: »

What can we do about what?

What can we do about providing a level playing field for all?

TruckerT

wotsthat

TruckerT wrote: »

What can we do about providing a level playing field for all?

Seems fairly level to me. Rich or poor we all travel in the same ambulances and sit side by side in A&E.

TruckerT

wotsthat wrote: »

Seems fairly level to me. Rich or poor we all travel in the same ambulances and sit side by side in A&E.

That is absolutely not true. Except in something like a road crash, rich people have a choice about how to get medical care.

TruckerT