Building regs & conservatories - what are the facts & will this house have problems?

florence4

I'm looking at a house that has a small open plan conservatory built off its dining room. I know there are building reg rules, and I don't think this house will comply, but I'm not sure what the implications are. The vendors were vague and didn't seem to know about BR at all, and said their solicitor had all the details, and of course I can set my solicitor to work; but I am wondering whether this will be odd/difficult/expensive enough that I simply shouldn't proceed and should look at other houses instead. (Also of course it's a bank holiday so I have been fretting about this for days without being able to contact my solicitor to ask! )

Here's what I know... I'd be very grateful for advice from anyone who is well informed about building regs...

This is an ex-council house on a long (900+ year) lease, with the council still being the free-holder. Would the LA have had to give permission for the extension? What should I look/ask for? Does the fact that the LA itself is the freeholder mean BRs are more or less likely to be an issue, or is this irrelevant?!

I know there is something called indemnity insurance... But I am not sure whether this will even be an option in a house where the LA is the freeholder as well as the BR authority/enforcer!

The conservatory was built 6-7 years ago. It is small - only about 9ft10in/3m square. It has a small wall - about 18inches high around its base but is otherwise fully glazed - glass walls and French door, plus a poly-carbon roof. The vendors turned a window in the external wall into a doorway/arch/entrance into the conservatory; it's about 5-6ft wide and there are no separating doors.

The conservatory itself has a radiator on the main CH system and the adjoining dining room has a CH radiator and solid fuel stove. Its EER and EIR are top of band D (so average).

There are very 'high' foundations because the garden slopes steeply away from the house and is tiered, so effectively the conservatory is ground level where it meets the house, but 6-8ft above ground at its outside wall. According to the vendors it is built on breeze blocks and it is brick faced on all the visible external walls. There are no visible cracks or irregularities inside or out.

The house is very well-maintained throughout. There is also a loft conversion that will not meet building regs because it has no fixed staircase, but the vendors report that the have strengthened the floor with extra floor joists and steel beams down from the ceiling joists... So they clearly take care of things, even if they perhaps don't follow the rules!

I'd be very grateful for advice from anyone who is well informed about BR and can tell me what my options are... Thanks!

lincroft1710

So not only a conservatory without BR, but also a loft conversion!

No, they don't follow the rules and may well have contravened the terms of their lease. I would be inclined to look for somewhere else.

florence4

To be fair, I don't actually know they don't have building regs... But they couldn't confirm, and I'm inclined to think they would have been clearer if they had. The trouble is, I don't understand how BRs work at all - I don't understand about 'sign off' or certification or any of it - so I'd be grateful for an explanation from someone who does.

I'm also not sure what the remedies are. If they don't have BR, is this something that can be 'fixed'? Can BR be obtained retrospectively? If so, can I insist they do this before I proceed any further? I don't know what my options are...

There doesn't seem to be a way to find out without paying a solicitor, which of course (as a money-saver!) I'd sooner not do if there are things I can find out now, for free, that will help me understand whether this is a situation that can or can't be fixed.

Also lincroft, I have now viewed about 25 houses, and I'd say 20 of them had alterations or issues that might have needed BR... So if I am avoiding houses with any alterations or issues at all, then I'm going to be looking a very, very long time...

lincroft1710

Building Inspectors should visit the site at certain stages during the work. When all the work has finished and the Inspector is satisfied that all has been done to the required standard it is signed off and a completion certificate issued.

BR cert can only be obtained retrospectively if the work meets the required standard.

The problem (sorry problems) with this house are (1) the conservatory having no door between it and dining room and whether the foundations are sufficient (2) have the steels and joists for the loft conversion been correctly installed? With a BR cert you would know these matters would have been properly dealt with. (3) do these alterations breach the terms of your lease. Often permission is needed from the freeholder for alterations.

Having said this, despite there being no BR, works may have been carried out correctly. But we don't know! Also when you come to sell, the same problems will occur.

Remember, BR ensures that works carried out meet standards, so the building doesn't collapse, the electrics don't short and electrocute you etc. Indemnity policy will only protect you against BR inspector taking action on the property.

If it was a freehold house with the conservatory on a level site, there would be minimal risk, you could easily put back doors between it and the dining room.

florence4

Thank you lincroft - lots of useful info there!

Presumably a survey will/would establish whether the building was likely to collapse, etc...?

And who would a BR inspector take action against? The leaseholder or the freeholder?

spidereyes

Really just to reiterate what Lincroft said, Indemnity Policy will only cover enforcement, not protect you should the property have structural problems etc. You will need to have you own surveyor in to have a look at the place.

As Lincroft advised you can get retrospective certificates if they were never issued initially however, this would null and void any indemnity policy (ie if building regs certs were refused)

Your solicitors should request that the vendors put in place the indemnity policy, and to be honest they should agree, however if not it will probably cost between £80-£150 depending on the provider etc.

In terms of the issue of landlord/freeholder consent this will depend on the terms of the lease and you will have to ask your solicitor to have a look at this.
If there have been breaches and no consent obtained, then it may be possible to obtain retrospective consent or again depending on the circumstances it may be possible for an indemnity policy in this respect.

In terms of the indemnity policies your solicitor should advise you accordingly, some polices can be transferred, so if you came to sell the property you wouldn't then need to pay for further cover to protect the buyer.

Better_Days

florence4 wrote: »

Presumably a survey will/would establish whether the building was likely to collapse, etc...?

A surveyor will only be able to comment on what he can inspect. Whether or not floor joists have been strengthened for example may not be apparent without lifting and possibly damaging flooring (depending what is down). The vendor may not agree to this.

florence4

Thank you, spidereyes and BetterDays.

So, one option would be for me to: (a) Get the vendors to put in place an indemnity policy (tho' I'm still not sure how that would work, with the LA being both the building authority and the freeholder!), and (b) get a full structural survey and proceed with caution if no problems are found...

Another option would be for me to ask the vendors to obtain BR certification before I proceed. (The house has been on the market for a while and previous sale(s) have apparently fallen through, so they might agree to this).

And another would be to walk away now.

Can anyone suggest any other options...?

lincroft1710

florence4 wrote: »

Another option would be for me to ask the vendors to obtain BR certification before I proceed. (The house has been on the market for a while and previous sale(s) have apparently fallen through, so they might agree to this).

But if the works don't conform to BR they won't be able to get a certificate without spending money to bring the works up to standard, which will also take time.

What odds would I give that previous sale(s) fell through because of the same problems you have now encountered?

My vote is to walk away, but must declare an interest in that I don't like hassle, and this purchase would be full of it.

florence4

You may well be right. But they gave me reasons for the previous sale(s) falling through, and they related to buyers' personal circumstances, not this. They have also told me there were two previous surveys, and they and the EA both told me those surveys did not reveal problems. I specifically asked to EA to confirm that they were not aware of any problems highlighted by previous surveys, and the EA did confirm this, verbally. Of course they could all be lying to me...

If I asked the vendors to seek BR certification, and they were refused it, then a logical next step would be to seek quotations for the work needed, and knock that off the purchase price. Then at least I would be dealing with known problems, rather than guessing at unknowns.

I don't mind a bit of hassle; what I do mind is discovering expensive problems I hadn't anticipated.

There is no sign of any problem that would stop us living comfortably in the house, as the vendors' family are doing currently.

Can anyone tell me... Do BRs affect normal household buildings' insurance? I.e. if by any chance there was some problem in the future with the conservatory or attic, and it turns out there isn't BR approval, would this affect a claim?

florence4

Update (if anyone's interested!)...

I've spoken to my solicitor and the EA this morning and got a bit more information:

- The conservatory required PP (despite its size, because of its construction) - and according to the vendors, it had it (tho I can't find the application on line).
- It will def have needed BR certification and doesn't have it.
- The attic can't be used as a room until it has a staircase and is BR compliant - but I knew that, and the same goes for about half of the other houses I've looked at.
- Buildings insurance doesn't cover extensions that don't meet BR, so if I bought it and it fell down, I couldn't claim to rebuild it, or claim for any damage it did to the rest of the house as it fell.
- The foundations are the real issue. The lack of doors is easily and relatively cheaply solved, if it turns out to be an issue.

I told the EA that I think there are two ways forward from this: (a) either the vendors apply for 'regularisation'/retrospective BR approval, and then I may raise my offer; or (b) they accept my offer of £130k, and if the survey reveals no problems, I'll proceed and carry the cost and risk of 'regularisation'/getting retro approval myself.

I got a swift call-back from the EAs saying that the vendors were applying for 'regularisation' and had already contacted the council to arrange inspection.