We've broken a sofa in our rental property, how best to minimise deduction?

grifferz

Hi,

We've been in a rental property for 4 years and are currently in our two month notice period since the property has been sold, we believe to another BTL investor.

A couple of years ago the sofa broke while in use - the dowelling that attaches the lower back right corner of the seat to the frame snapped off, causing the seat to dip down at one end to the floor. The sofa is a fairly cheap Ikea model that was somewhat dilapidated when we moved in. I don't believe we were misusing the sofa at the time, e.g. no one was jumping on it or anything.

We didn't want to notify the landlord at the time so we just propped the back corner up with books, which has proven perfectly adequate up until now. The agents have visited many times since then and have never noticed.

Clearly we are now going to have to come clean about this damage and cannot rely on wear and tear. We do not dispute that we broke it and that therefore some amount of deduction from deposit is likely. I would like your opinions on the best way to go about minimising the deductions.

Should we contact the agent now and explain the situation and ask them what amount of deduction is likely?

Should we leave it until check out time in August, wait for them to notice it and then negotiate deductions?

From overhearing conversations between buyer, his builder and agent during viewings I understand that the buyer plans extensive renovation and is unlikely to want any of the fixtures and fittings. The landlord is not resident in the UK and is unlikely to want them himself. All of this coupled with the age of the item (at least 5 years) leads me to believe that any deduction must be relatively small vs. the cost of a brand new cheap Ikea sofa (particular model no longer sold). Is it worth mentioning any of that?

The model of sofa is "Lillberg" and it's a three seater. It looks like Ikea started selling it in 2007:

"We just came out with the Lillberg sofa bed in October" - Ikea employee posting in December 2007. http://www.ikeafans.com/forums/assembly-installation/11100-cant-convert-lillberg-sofa-into-bed.html

Since we moved in in 2009 and it looked pretty battered then, I believe it must be closer to 5+ years old than 4 years old. I can find a few references on American sites of it being discontinued in January 2008. I can find a two seater version on ebay that sold for £35. Here's a 3 seater (but white, not black like "ours") on gumtree where they want £20 for it:

http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/3-seater-ikea-lillberg-sofa/1019865907

Brand new, it looks like Ikea's cheapest is currently "Karlstad" at £300, but even this seems significantly better than a brand new version of Lillberg:

http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/S39840534/

If you are a landlord, what approach would see you starting off with a zero or minimal deduction value as opposed to coming straight in with the cost of a new sofa off of Ikea? And what would you consider fair deduction?

jamie11

As a landlord I would expect a proportion of the cost of replacement or repair, at the age of the item you mention I think 20% of actual cost would be more than fair. (Because I would expect it to last a minimum 10 years.)

moneyistooshorttomention

jamie11 wrote: »

As a landlord I would expect a proportion of the cost of replacement or repair, at the age of the item you mention I think 20% of actual cost would be more than fair. (Because I would expect it to last a minimum 10 years.)

This

...and I would expect you to tell me about it - rather than "waiting for him to notice it" (ie hoping he wouldn't notice it:cool: = getting away with it).

You cant assume that the landlord isn't planning on selling the furniture to someone else - and therefore needs it all to be in saleable condition (including that sofa).

grifferz

Thanks jamie11.

Can you explain why 20%? I am not arguing with you, I would just like to understand, as if you would expect a 10 year life and it's around 5-6 years old isn't that 40 to 50% of its life remaining?

I've now found another example of Lillberg on gumtree, this one is asking £120 for the sofa plus an armchair:

http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/ikea-lillberg-3-seater-sofa-bed-and-chair/1018493199

So, I don't know, say £90 for the sofa alone second hand? Then the other ad was £20 but obviously just wanted it gone. Reasonable estimate of a brand new price from that? I have trouble imagining more than £150-£200.

Going with your percentage, 20% of £150 being £30, 20% of £300 (price of new Karlstad which I would consider betterment) £60. Inform agent now, ask for decision on deduction and argue for it to be as close to £30 as possible?

grifferz

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

This

Thanks - Do you feel 20% is reasonable and would you like to hazard a guess as to the value of the item as new?

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

...and I would expect you to tell me about it - rather than "waiting for him to notice it" (ie hoping he wouldn't notice it:cool: = getting away with it).

Yeah there is no chance of it not being noticed so that was never the intention, just wondering if it's better to start negotiation now or on the day of the final check.

moneyistooshorttomention

Basically - I would go with the argument as to how long I expected an item to last reasonably. If, for instance, an item had cost £1,000 in the first place and I had expected it to last 10 years - then I would knock off £100 per year from what I would expect to be paid for it.

So - if it broke at the end of Year 2 - then I would expect £800 for it. That would apply even if I knew that if I put it up for private sale in a newspaper small ad I could only expect £200 for it. The reason being my plan wasn't to sell it at all and I had expected to get the remaining 8 years of "life" from it and I didn't have any need to buy a new sofa or chuck it out to get the space. Whereas - someone selling a possession through the small ads has decided not to keep the possession any longer and is deliberately getting rid of it to get a replacement they want to have anyway or to get the space.

So - there is a huge difference between what I would expect to be paid dependant on whether it was my choice to sell/"sell" the sofa anyway.

Might as well admit it now...

grifferz

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

someone selling a possession through the small ads has decided not to keep the possession any longer and is deliberately getting rid of it to get a replacement they want to have anyway or to get the space.

Okay so probably no point in me mentioning the second hand prices. A pity I do not know the original purchase price.

If they come back saying, "it would cost £300 to replace and had half its lifespan left so we want £150" I will be a little irritated because there is no way they would achieve £150 selling it second hand in working order. Absent this breakage the most likely outcome is that new owner is going to scrap it rather than leave a tatty old cheap sofa in their newly-decorated property!

[Deleted User]

Hi,

ask if you can buy it, say you've become attached to it, lots of happy memories, see what price they want.

You might get it cheap, and then it gives you an idea of what kinda value it has if you do need to pay.

grifferz

[Deleted User] wrote:

ask if you can buy it, say you've become attached to it, lots of happy memories, see what price they want.

:rotfl:

I'm not sure I can pull off the level of sincerity required to make them believe I genuinely want it, and when I later say something like, "ah okay well in actual fact it's broken so how about I give you half of the £100 you just offered me?" isn't it just going to infuriate them?

(Even on day 1 it was an uncomfortable sofa and it is only with the addition of many many extra cushions that anyone could bear to sit on it for more than an hour!)

grifferz

I love you archive.org:

http://web.archive.org/web/20090123034436/http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/S59839817

DRP

grifferz wrote: »

:rotfl:

I'm not sure I can pull off the level of sincerity required to make them believe I genuinely want it, and when I later say something like, "ah okay well in actual fact it's broken so how about I give you half of the £100 you just offered me?" isn't it just going to infuriate them?

(Even on day 1 it was an uncomfortable sofa and it is only with the addition of many many extra cushions that anyone could bear to sit on it for more than an hour!)

I think the offering to buy might just work.

Probably best to notice the thing has broken *after* the LL agrees to sell for a paltry amount (you can quote what the sofa is going for on gumtree when making your offer to buy). At least you'll know what the LL values the thing at...

Alternatively, can the sofa be fixed? Either buy bits/(dowels?) direct from ikea or buy the cheapest 2nd hand ikea sofa and replace the broken bits?