Santander refund fraudulent transaction back to company ? Help

meer53

matttye wrote: »

People take time out of their day to post on MSE and therefore clearly have an interest in helping others. Sometimes when you call a call centre or go into a bank you get the feeling they just want to get rid of you.

People on MSE advise to cancel CPA and many people employed by the bank don't have the slightest clue how to do that or that it's even possible.

There's clearly an issue when you get better advice from random forum goers than people employed by the bank.

There is a huge issue with CPA's. Banks can't actually cancel them. The regulations which were put in place promising people this could be done were put in place without banks having the systems to allow them to do it. There has always been the facility to dispute CPA's, this hasn't changed. As long as people call the companies they have the CPA with to cancel their agreement, the banks can recover any monies which are taken after the cancellation. The problem is that people now expect banks and card issuers to do everything for them, why should a bank have the power to cancel an agreement that they are not party to ?

Relying and acting on advice given on an internet forum is dangerous. You should always seek advice from the correct source, then if anything goes wrong, you can blame them for giving you incorrect advice originally. Where would you stand if you took advice from some anonymous poster on MSE ? How far do you think your bank would go to help you then ?

matttye

innovate wrote: »

You have obviously got a precise insight into the skills of many people employed by the bank.


None of us know what the OP told the bank and what was discussed. None of us know what advice was given by bank employees.

I'm talking about in general, not in relation to this specific issue. So many times people are given incorrect information by call centre staff.

meer53 wrote: »

There is a huge issue with CPA's. Banks can't actually cancel them. The regulations which were put in place promising people this could be done were put in place without banks having the systems to allow them to do it. There has always been the facility to dispute CPA's, this hasn't changed. As long as people call the companies they have the CPA with to cancel their agreement, the banks can recover any monies which are taken after the cancellation. The problem is that people now expect banks and card issuers to do everything for them, why should a bank have the power to cancel an agreement that they are not party to ?

Relying and acting on advice given on an internet forum is dangerous. You should always seek advice from the correct source, then if anything goes wrong, you can blame them for giving you incorrect advice originally. Where would you stand if you took advice from some anonymous poster on MSE ? How far do you think your bank would go to help you then ?

I would never blindly take advice from someone on here but back it up with my own research. It's handy to be pointed in the right direction.

Then banks should not be telling people they can't do anything about it. What they should be doing is saying that they don't have the facilities in place to cancel the payment but they will immediately refund the money when it's taken. I would also like to point out that the power to cancel a CPA has been in law for at least four years, so why haven't the banks pulled their fingers out and updated their systems yet? There's no excuse for it.

Finally, cancelling payment authority doesn't cancel the agreement, just like cancelling a direct debit doesn't cancel the agreement. It just cancels the payment.

gb12345

matttye wrote: »

I would also like to point out that the power to cancel a CPA has been in law for at least four years, so why haven't the banks pulled their fingers out and updated their systems yet? There's no excuse for it.

Probably because they are still struggling to meet the Basel II (and possibly Solvency II if they) etc regulatory requirement deadlines that involve major systems projects.

For CPAs there are workarounds - put the money back after it has been taken, but for other regulatory requirements there are no workarounds. So CPA system work takes a back seat until the capacity to do it is available.

matttye

gb12345 wrote: »

Probably because they are still struggling to meet the Basel II (and possibly Solvency II if they) etc regulatory requirement deadlines that involve major systems projects.

For CPAs there are workarounds - put the money back after it has been taken, but for other regulatory requirements there are no workarounds. So CPA system work takes a back seat until the capacity to do it is available.

Fine, but they should stop telling people they can't do anything about it and instead tell them what they can do about it.

innovate

meer53 wrote: »

There is a huge issue with CPA's. Banks can't actually cancel them. The regulations which were put in place promising people this could be done were put in place without banks having the systems to allow them to do it. There has always been the facility to dispute CPA's, this hasn't changed. As long as people call the companies they have the CPA with to cancel their agreement, the banks can recover any monies which are taken after the cancellation. The problem is that people now expect banks and card issuers to do everything for them, why should a bank have the power to cancel an agreement that they are not party to ?

Relying and acting on advice given on an internet forum is dangerous. You should always seek advice from the correct source, then if anything goes wrong, you can blame them for giving you incorrect advice originally. Where would you stand if you took advice from some anonymous poster on MSE ? How far do you think your bank would go to help you then ?

I think we're into semantics now. Yes, a banks can't cancel a CPA. However, that does not relieve a bank from stopping payments to a company if asked to do so. The bank has a legal duty (under EU Law) to act on the customer's request. According to the MSE main site, the FCA says:

You have the right to cancel them [CPAs] directly with your bank or card issuer by telling it that you have stopped permission for the payments. Your bank or card issuer must then stop them – it has no right to insist that you agree this first with the company taking the payments

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/recurring-payments

So, thing to do is

1. put the request in writing to your bank / card provider. Do not just ask someone in Branch or on the phone.
2. ensure you have proof of delivery (post it "signed for", track it, print the confirmation of receipt, keep it in a safe place)
3. if the bank/card provider are still making payment(s) 8 weeks after receipt of the letter, take them to the Ombudsman.
4. claim back any money they paid despite being in receipt of your written instructions.
   
5. it's also worth sending a copy of the letter to the company that is taking the payments
6. don't fall for any further tricks from companies that will take money forever once you have given them your card number

meer53

matttye wrote: »

Finally, cancelling payment authority doesn't cancel the agreement, just like cancelling a direct debit doesn't cancel the agreement. It just cancels the payment.

Exactly what i said. The agreement needs to be cancelled first to allow the banks to return any payments taken. The chargeback procedure for CPA's has been in place for years, it's always worked perfectly well. Banks do tell people what they can do, why would they tell them that they can cancel CPA's when they can't ?

Also, banks do refund s soon as they are made aware of an unauthorised payment, the problem with CPA's is that until the agreement is cancelled by the customer, the payments are authorised.

dalesrider

meer53 wrote: »

once you had confirmed these were fraudulent, they would have been refunded to your account and a chargeback would have been actioned.

Now you missed out one bit here.

A chargeback cannot be actioned without the OP signing a declaration confirming fraud.

Odd's on the OP has either never received, or never returned. As such will have been redebited, just to prompt them to act on the matter.
Why should Santander lose out on reclaiming the £40. Just because someone is too lazy to send a letter back.

Either that or its a 2nd case of fraud.

matttye

meer53 wrote: »

Exactly what i said. The agreement needs to be cancelled first to allow the banks to return any payments taken. The chargeback procedure for CPA's has been in place for years, it's always worked perfectly well. Banks do tell people what they can do, why would they tell them that they can cancel CPA's when they can't ?

Also, banks do refund s soon as they are made aware of an unauthorised payment, the problem with CPA's is that until the agreement is cancelled by the customer, the payments are authorised.

The FCA says a customer can cancel CPA by going to their bank, and the law backs up what they're saying. The customer DOESN'T have to go to the company that takes the payment.

The law also says that once authorisation for a transaction is removed by the customer, the bank is liable to refund all monies immediately.

innovate

meer53 wrote: »

The agreement needs to be cancelled first to allow the banks to return any payments taken.

If that's what your employer tells you, they are telling you porkies and are breaking the law.

matttye

innovate wrote: »

If that's what your employer tells you, they are telling you porkies and are breaking the law.

matttye wrote: »

People on MSE advise to cancel CPA and many people employed by the bank don't have the slightest clue how to do that or that it's even possible.

Case in point