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NHS in a capitalist economy...
Comments
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No, the NHS was established on three core principles; it was to be universal, free at the point of delivery, and based on clinical need, not ability to pay. It was not established on the basis that it would "provide care irrespective of cost". Aneurin Bevan wasn't that stupid.
The NHS charges for its services according to its costs. It just doesn't charge the patient. Depending on what kind of arrangements that you put in place, whatever is meant by a "privatised service" could operate in exactly the same way.
If capitalism can't provide enough economic wealth to fund the NHS then you're stuffed.
Apart from a few linguistic niceties, I would say that we are broadly in agreement.
TruckerTAccording to Clapton, I am a totally ignorant idiot.0 -
Apart from a few linguistic niceties, I would say that we are broadly in agreement.
TruckerT
Being wrong about the NHS providing 'care irrespective of cost' isn't a linguistic nicety, it's pretty fundamental to health care economics. Not knowing the difference between its and it's, that's a linguistic nicety.:)0 -
Being wrong about the NHS providing 'care irrespective of cost' isn't a linguistic nicety, it's pretty fundamental to health care economics. Not knowing the difference between its and it's, that's a linguistic nicety.:)
Ok, let's have a keyboard spat....
What is the difference between something which is "universally available, free of charge, and according to need rather than ability to pay" and something which is available "irrespective of cost". Please don't get picky about the 'free at the point of delivery' issue.
TruckerTAccording to Clapton, I am a totally ignorant idiot.0 -
Ok, let's have a keyboard spat....
What is the difference between something which is "universally available, free of charge, and according to need rather than ability to pay" and something which is available "irrespective of cost". Please don't get picky about the 'free at the point of delivery' issue.
TruckerT
Well I guess they may be willing to rush you into A&E to save you life following aheartache . Then providing you pulled through and got relatively well again they may look at further treatment if it was cost effective to stop you having another one. Age, weight,medical history etc.
If you were terminally ill with cancer then they are unlikely to splash out on all the latest medicines to buy you a couple of months."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
whatever is meant by a "privatised service" could operate in exactly the same way.
And add on a top slice for the shareholders:T
If the government couldn't afford the budget I doubt the shareholders would take a haircut."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
This is untrue. I am undergoing a procedure in an NHS hospital and have been asked for forms to prove that I have the "right" for free treatment. I have to include a copy of my passport, my right to stay, my salary slip, my NIC, a letter from my employer detailing my job title with dates of employment and NIC contributions.
They also want all this within 2 weeks from the date of sending the letter with a bank holiday in the middle :rotfl:
I've been working in the UK for 5years+ and have never needed anything until now.
Given the choice, I would have withheld my NICs and paid for private healthcare as the NHS has been diabolical in diagnosing me. (and I work in a health allied profession)
What would have been the position if you hadn't been able to evidence contribution?
If you had gone private, for a real condition, you would probably have seen the same specialists, just not on overtime."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
Ok, let's have a keyboard spat....
What is the difference between something which is "universally available, free of charge, and according to need rather than ability to pay" and something which is available "irrespective of cost". Please don't get picky about the 'free at the point of delivery' issue.
TruckerT
The difference is the NHS will pay what it costs to a point and will then make a clinical judgement on what else they can do to improve your condition compared with the help they can give to other patients. In doing so they base the decision on your ability to benefit from the treatment not your ability to pay for it.
A US style insurance system will treat you regardless of your ability to benefit from the treatment up to the limits of your insurance cover or your ability to pay. Once you cannot afford to pay they will limit the treatment they provide to emergency treatment and quietly ship you off to a public hospital.Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
This is untrue. I am undergoing a procedure in an NHS hospital and have been asked for forms to prove that I have the "right" for free treatment. I have to include a copy of my passport, my right to stay, my salary slip, my NIC, a letter from my employer detailing my job title with dates of employment and NIC contributions.
They also want all this within 2 weeks from the date of sending the letter with a bank holiday in the middle :rotfl:
I've been working in the UK for 5years+ and have never needed anything until now.
Given the choice, I would have withheld my NICs and paid for private healthcare as the NHS has been diabolical in diagnosing me. (and I work in a health allied profession)
Do you understand what insurance is?
It's taken out in case a risk happens.
The entire point of the NHS is that we all contribute to it then if unfortunately you are involved in a major accident, find yourself with a terminal illness or a genetic condition you didn't know about expresses itself to your detriment you get care without the worry of having to pay for it.
Private insurance in the UK doesn't cover you for major medical incidents.
You are also not allowed to part pay for treatment for illnesses like cancer to ensure that everyone is treated fairly.
No health system is perfect. There are a lot of people with misdiagnosis.I'm not cynical I'm realistic
(If a link I give opens pop ups I won't know I don't use windows)0 -
Given the choice, I would have withheld my NICs and paid for private healthcare as the NHS has been diabolical in diagnosing me. (and I work in a health allied profession)
How would this have helped you?Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
How would this have helped you?
People who are fit and healthy who are surrounded by fit and healthy family and friends, always presume they will stay fit and healthy.
Once they have seen a person close to them who is young and was healthy get a terminal illness or be involved in a major accident and see what the NHS actually does to treat them they change their mind.
The system falls down with elderly care, for adults with mental and severe disabilities, and previously healthy adults who suffer with poor GPs attitudes even though their condition is treatable.I'm not cynical I'm realistic
(If a link I give opens pop ups I won't know I don't use windows)0
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