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NHS in a capitalist economy...
Comments
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How long can what last?
The commitment of its health professionals may not live much longer. Over generations we are witnessing a change in attitude. My generation did not always seek a career in the public sector but always regarded it as a worthy occupation, particularly in professional occupations like teaching, nursing science and accountancy. Many leaving school today view those who work in the public sector as lazy, overpaid and unproductive. This attitude means that there is a decreasing number of people who view public service positively and an increasing number who see it as just another job. Ultimately this will take its toll, and people will simply follow the money or the interesting work and have no loyalty to the job and relatively little dedication to the patient.
The NHS will last as long as we elect governments who are committed to it. Fundamentally there is no reason why efficient services cannot be provided in a public sector organisation. But the drive to reduce costs and the political motivation to privatise services will also take its toll. While making a profit from efficiencies is a laudable aim, if this is done by reducing wages, worse terms of employment, the level of commitment of the staff will also fall. It is of course possible to make a profit by delivering good quality services more efficiently but so often those doing it reduce quality and demotivate staff.
I can tell you from my own experience that the pressure to stay alive by going for never-ending screening tests, blood tests, drug reviews, gp appointments etc etc (mostly operated by box-tickers who are mostly interested in themselves, and their targets, and their progress reviews etc) eventually begins to take its own toll...According to Clapton, I am a totally ignorant idiot.0 -
How long can what last?
The commitment of its health professionals may not live much longer. Over generations we are witnessing a change in attitude. My generation did not always seek a career in the public sector but always regarded it as a worthy occupation, particularly in professional occupations like teaching, nursing science and accountancy. Many leaving school today view those who work in the public sector as lazy, overpaid and unproductive. This attitude means that there is a decreasing number of people who view public service positively and an increasing number who see it as just another job. Ultimately this will take its toll, and people will simply follow the money or the interesting work and have no loyalty to the job and relatively little dedication to the patient.
The NHS will last as long as we elect governments who are committed to it. Fundamentally there is no reason why efficient services cannot be provided in a public sector organisation. But the drive to reduce costs and the political motivation to privatise services will also take its toll. While making a profit from efficiencies is a laudable aim, if this is done by reducing wages, worse terms of employment, the level of commitment of the staff will also fall. It is of course possible to make a profit by delivering good quality services more efficiently but so often those doing it reduce quality and demotivate staff.
Profit shouldn't come into life and death equations. Cost effectiveness suitability of treatment plans yes.
Once it it gets wholly privatised even more of the cost, whoever pays it, will be lost in bureaucracy, form filling, backside covering and "profit"."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »Profit shouldn't come into life and death equations. Cost effectiveness suitability of treatment plans yes.
Once it it gets wholly privatised even more of the cost, whoever pays it, will be lost in bureaucracy, form filling, backside covering and "profit".
I agree.
But I think that culture of the NHS is already changing and this does reflect the changing attitude of the general public to the role of public service. The present Government will take privatisation as far as they think they can get away with, as did the Thatcher/Major reforms.
In another generation we might find its acceptable for the NHS to be a procurement authority running private sector healthcare services. Clearly some will see this as quite reasonable, but I think it will mean that those working for the private sector service providers will see their role as generating profit for their employer first and providing healthcare second. The holistic service the NHS aspired to deliver will be a poor third.Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »Profit shouldn't come into life and death equations. Cost effectiveness suitability of treatment plans yes.
Once it it gets wholly privatised even more of the cost, whoever pays it, will be lost in bureaucracy, form filling, backside covering and "profit".
What's the different between this and the NHS making a decision not to provide you with the latest cancer drug because it's too expensive?0 -
chewmylegoff wrote: »What's the different between this and the NHS making a decision not to provide you with the latest cancer drug because it's too expensive?
The NHS is supposed to provide care irrespective of cost, but it doesn't have enough money.
A privatised service would charge for it's services according to it's costs.
That's the difference.
The first is the 'Socialist' way, the second is for the Capitalists.
The NHS was established when life expectancy was still short, and medical science was still fairly primitive.
The capitalist system can no longer provide the services which we all take for granted. We need to find another way.
TruckerT
ps - it would probably help if the bankers were to give us some of our money back TTAccording to Clapton, I am a totally ignorant idiot.0 -
chewmylegoff wrote: »What's the different between this and the NHS making a decision not to provide you with the latest cancer drug because it's too expensive?
Private health care will not provide unlimited access to the latest drugs and medication."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
The NHS is supposed to provide care irrespective of cost, but it doesn't have enough money.
A privatised service would charge for it's services according to it's costs.
That's the difference.
The first is the 'Socialist' way, the second is for the Capitalists.
The NHS was established when life expectancy was still short, and medical science was still fairly primitive.
The capitalist system can no longer provide the services which we all take for granted. We need to find another way.
TruckerT
ps - it would probably help if the bankers were to give us some of our money back TT
There will always be rationing based on the resources devoted to healthcare. Even in the early days of the NHS people died through lack of resources.
The Socialist way (as you put it ) values life as being equal irrespective of your means to afford it. The Capitalist way places more value on some lives than others (and what is wrong with that some will say). But neither is capable of providing access to all possible medical solutions for all people irrespective of cost.Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
There are two major problems with regards to funding.
One was the introduction followed by the massive increase in elective procedures such as plastic surgery that was not required, such as breast implants for reasons other than repairing damage.
The other is the provision of health care to any who ask for it regardless of where in the world they come from and whether they have insurance to cover the costs.0 -
StevenMarks wrote: »The other is the provision of health care to any who ask for it regardless of where in the world they come from and whether they have insurance to cover the costs.
This is untrue. I am undergoing a procedure in an NHS hospital and have been asked for forms to prove that I have the "right" for free treatment. I have to include a copy of my passport, my right to stay, my salary slip, my NIC, a letter from my employer detailing my job title with dates of employment and NIC contributions.
They also want all this within 2 weeks from the date of sending the letter with a bank holiday in the middle :rotfl:
I've been working in the UK for 5years+ and have never needed anything until now.
Given the choice, I would have withheld my NICs and paid for private healthcare as the NHS has been diabolical in diagnosing me. (and I work in a health allied profession)0 -
The NHS is supposed to provide care irrespective of cost, but it doesn't have enough money....
No, the NHS was established on three core principles; it was to be universal, free at the point of delivery, and based on clinical need, not ability to pay. It was not established on the basis that it would "provide care irrespective of cost". Aneurin Bevan wasn't that stupid....A privatised service would charge for it's services according to it's costs.
The NHS charges for its services according to its costs. It just doesn't charge the patient. Depending on what kind of arrangements that you put in place, whatever is meant by a "privatised service" could operate in exactly the same way.....The capitalist system can no longer provide the services which we all take for granted. We need to find another way.
If capitalism can't provide enough economic wealth to fund the NHS then you're stuffed.0
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