fighting a pcn help

Guys_Dad

lilies2011 wrote: »

Ok thanks, they will not be getting my money so easily so I will be doing everything I can!

For clarification, POPLA come from a position that these charges are legitimate in principle. What I mean by that is if a charge has been issued for a "contravention" that the motorist has made to the "contract that they agreed" when they parked, then the appeal will be lost.

It is up to the motorist to show that the PPC has failed to follow the BPA guidelines, the POFA act, or some other failure in procedure. That is the only way you can win at POPLA.

POPLAisn't worried whether you think the charge is fair, or whether you were in a hurry, thought it didn't apply on Sundays, or any other mitigation. The charge stands unless you can show the PPC were in some way deficient

So, here is the start of a checklist, that I hope others can refine and we might be able to use it as a reference.

1. I/We didn't do it. If it is genuinely the wrong vehicle and you can prove it, this is the clincher. If it is an ANPR system, and they are using "first in last out", demand a full extract of all photos for the period in question that shows you entering and leaving twice, and if you have receipts that shows you elsewhere in between, so much the better.

2. The PPC has no contract with the landowner that allows them to charge me. Always demand that they produce documentation to POPLA. This should be in EVERY POPLA appeal.

3. The signs are not compliant with the BPA requirements. Check ouit the BPA COP and get them on the slightest error.

3. They failed to keep to the timescales as laid out in the BPA COP and POFA. Keep the paperwork and ensure that they have followed that to the letter.

4. The amount they are trying to charge is too high. Currently the BPA suggest £100 is the upper limit of the non-discounted charge.

5. They are not offering at least a 40% discount for "prompt payment" and are not giving you 14 days to pay that amount.

Disabled Drivers' section.

I will leave coupon-mad to construct these items, if she is inclined to do so, but would welcome others adding to or editing the initial 5 points. If we can arrive at a POPLA checklist, I am sure it would be most helpful and save a lot of time.

nigelbb

Guys_Dad wrote: »

2. The PPC has no contract with the landowner that allows them to charge me. Always demand that they produce documentation to POPLA. This should be in EVERY POPLA appeal.

The BPA CoP states:-

7.1 If you do not own the land on which you are carrying
out parking management, you must have the written
authorisation of the landowner (or their appointed
agent) before you can start operating on the land in
question. The authorisation must give you the authority
to carry out all the aspects of the management and
enforcement of the site that you are responsible for. In
particular, it must say that the landowner requires you
to keep to the Code of Practice, and that you have
the authority to pursue outstanding parking charges,
through the courts if necessary.

This is important as in the case of Parking Eye vs Somerfield it was revealed in court that by a specific clause in the contract PE were forbidden to take any customers to court.

BTW for those who are unaware of this case PE hassled Somerfield's customers so much that they kicked them out & were then sued for breach of contract for all the lost revenues from issuing parking charges. PE won £350K but their crooked business practices were exposed in court.

Guys_Dad

nigelbb wrote: »

The BPA CoP states:-


This is important as in the case of Parking Eye vs Somerfield it was revealed in court that by a specific clause in the contract PE were forbidden to take any customers to court.

BTW for those who are unaware of this case PE hassled Somerfield's customers so much that they kicked them out & were then sued for breach of contract for all the lost revenues from issuing parking charges. PE won £350K but their crooked business practices were exposed in court.

OK NIgel. Take the list from my post, and change my point to incorporate your amendment, but try to keep it short as I am trying to put together a snappy short list of points that could/should go in a POPLA appeal.

Very happy for others to re-draft any points they want to as well, keeping it snappy, and adding others.

Coupon-mad

A search finds this on t'internet (the Watchdog episode about the MET scam at McDonalds):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbbZtxzrJAI

The only difference is that now a PPC doesn't have to know who was driving as they can send their letters to the registered keeper now (big deal)!.

And a search of this forum for 'POPLA' would give the OP some info about constructing the next stage appeal so that a draft can be put together; we can then help perfect that stage of appeal so you win, lilies2011.

Read about POPLA and take the advice above. When you get to that stage show us what draft challenge you've come up with (not about what happened that day).

lilies2011

Thankyou all for the replies.
I will mention that it is not a local restaurant so apart from requesting the locations of the signs, via the copied template letter from this site I have no way of knowing the placement and wording of the signs. I will update as to what I have in response from them.

Is there knowlege of anyone who has had any success from the restaurant intervention at all? since they emailed Met stating that I was in the restaurant the whole time, or is this just too much to expect?

bargepole

1. I/We didn't do it. If it is genuinely the wrong vehicle and you can prove it, this is the clincher. If it is an ANPR system, and they are using "first in last out", demand a full extract of all photos for the period in question that shows you entering and leaving twice, and if you have receipts that shows you elsewhere in between, so much the better.

2. The PPC has no contract with the landowner that allows them to charge me. Always demand that they produce documentation to POPLA. This should be in EVERY POPLA appeal.

3. The signs are not compliant with the BPA requirements. Check ouit the BPA COP and get them on the slightest error.

3. They failed to keep to the timescales as laid out in the BPA COP and POFA. Keep the paperwork and ensure that they have followed that to the letter.

4. The amount they are trying to charge is too high. Currently the BPA suggest £100 is the upper limit of the non-discounted charge.

5. They are not offering at least a 40% discount for "prompt payment" and are not giving you 14 days to pay that amount.

6. They have alleged a breach of contractual terms, but have not provided a breakdown of their actual losses arising from the breach, or any justification of their charge as a pre-estimate of loss. Under contract law, a party can only claim for their actual or liquidated losses, not an arbitrary sum. Currently, this point is the most common reason POPLA appeals are upheld.

Disabled Drivers' section.