Electric heaters

paieye

Thank you, this is all very helpful

Richie-from-the-Boro

This implies that 'night rates' - may be on the way out

Does it ? in fact it implies the opposite, the absolute 180° inverse of the assertion, night rates are the only revenue for 50% of the generation. Mi££ions of units are wasted from unused generation after midnight every say of every year and have been since we as a nation were weaned off domestic gas-lamps and street lamps, hence the reason in the first place for the very invention of a cheap night time tariff. Night store is the only existing now and future cash market for the generators, the millions of kWh storage heaters are the only storage of heat converted from energy the country possesses. The advent of a working smart metering system means this resource currently going to earth can be even better utilised than it currently is, particularly from a GOV perspective as for the first time smart metering will allow a UK island wide security of 'storage' .. .. a previously untapped potential.

10-50% (depending on settings, technology, your lifestyle) may be wasted

Nothing is wasted, the stored heat leeced through the insulation is going into the fabric of peoples homes, bedrooms, kitchen pre-warming the dwelling etc.

The storage heater will end up at a little under half the price / has less maintenance / installation / quieter

That would be nearer a third of the price allowing for installation. A 50 year maintenance of a night store heater is zero - unless you are unlucky. The condensing [outside] unit, even on the one you mention is only quiet at its lowest setting. I've seen quotes in excess of £2k fitted for these units, that's a fitting price as high as the cost of the product, and a completed end installed handover cost of £2-2+,000. Usually sized to compensate for 70 - 100% of the building's heat loss, its my bet that installs will only ever be at the lower / cheaper 70%, whereas if I was installing for myself I'd want at least the 100% for the extra capacity headroom. That way the components would be working at a lower capacity reducing stress on the expensive and technically more complex compressor.

Lifespan and capability you did not mention, the product you point to is essentially an 'aircon' not an air~to~heat unit, has a relatively limited lifespan [replacement cost] compared to night store, a maintenance requirement, and is almost certainly underpowered. Its the equivalent of one compact double convector radiator 600 mm X 1400 mm 8250 BTU/h. Many [greening] Scottish LA's [big green grants given] installed a system 30% bigger and have been bombarded with constant complaints by people having to switch on expensive supplementary heating in this their first winter using the product.

The general principal I agree with that they are much cheaper to run giving up to 3+ times more heat than you pay for. This tech in a well insulated dwelling might well achieve thr 3+ figure a poorly insulated house though might only achieve a 1.1 or 1.5+. One of my gripes is even the good brands tend to give a limited 5 year warranty. Open plan modern well insulated UK homes are an easy / cheap install [square area dependant] but will benefit from a more expensive 5kW to 9kW system. The problem with UK small / many rooms and only one source of heat input is therefore self evidently going to be more difficult with a single unit.

rachelholmes

im in the same situations so are storage heaters worth while or not??

bryanb

Mi££ions of units are wasted from unused generation after midnight every say of every year

This is totally impossible, A/C electricity must be used as it is generated.

It is possible to store potential energy as water pumped up to a reservoir, or heat stored in storage heaters.

A/C Electricity cannot be stored or wasted.

Richie-from-the-Boro

bryanb wrote: »

This is totally impossible, A/C electricity must be used as it is generated.

It is possible to store potential energy as water pumped up to a reservoir, or heat stored in storage heaters.

A/C Electricity cannot be stored or wasted.

This is totally impossible, A/C electricity must be used as it is generated

That is precisely what I said in #13 - Mi££ions of units are wasted from unused generation after midnight every day of every year. Night store heating is the (1a) only source of revenue for the generators, (1b) this resource currently going to earth and the only (2) storage for that electricity converted to heat the country possesses - precisely what I said in #13.

It is possible to store potential energy as water pumped up to a reservoir

Example please ...................... I've never heard of any wasted megga-wattage electricity generation being stored as heat in water.

st999

Quote:
It is possible to store potential energy as water pumped up to a reservoir
Example please .................

Never heard of this then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity

bryanb

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

Example please ...................... I've never heard of any wasted megga-wattage electricity generation being stored as heat in water.

I said stored as potential energy not heat energy.
Google Dinorwig pumped storage for an explanation, or see the post above.

Richie-from-the-Boro

bryanb wrote: »

I said stored as potential energy not heat energy.
Google Dinorwig pumped storage for an explanation, or see the post above.

- irrelevant in a debate such as this , airy fairy claptrap, and a whole other subject
- my #13 contribultion which you quoted and contradicted makes clear I was debating "allow a UK island wide security of 'storage'"
- ie, waste power generation that can not be switched off, usually wasted stored in individual homes in millions of storage radiators

Hydro was in this country in Cragside 150 years ago, get up to speed, the debate was on storing current wind / wave / coal / etc wasted generation rather than sending it to earth .. .. not pumping water uphill.

Richie-from-the-Boro

st999 wrote: »

Never heard of this then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity

- prove its an economic reality
- then explain why no one has done it yet

bryanb

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

- prove its an economic reality
- then explain why no one has done it yet

Time to come into the real world Richie, this has been in operation for many years.
Also please don't twist what I post. ie generated electricity cannot be wasted.