Rejecting a used car- section 75?

dexters_mum_2

Hello

I haven't posted in a long time but I could do with some advice if at all possible?

I bought a used Peugeot 206 (05 reg) from a used car dealer, I traded in my old car (04 307) and paid the remainder of the balance on my Santander credit card, which was £495. I bought the car less than 2 months ago (27/03/2013).

The dealer supplied a warranty, with a claims limit of £250 on it and it only covers the moving engine parts, the clutch and the gear box.

I had an issue with it within a few weeks, the water pump broke, I rang the trader and the warranty company who basically said that it wasn't their problem, it was a normal wear and tear item. I got the cambelt, water pump, tensioner done. Whilst the car was in the garage they noticed the front brakes were badly worn, the car had been supplied with a new MOT when I bought it. There was no advisories about the brakes on the MOT but the garage doing the work said if the MOT had been done within a month (which it had), they said it should have been a fail. That in itself worried me because the MOT was done at the garage next door to the trader. Have found out since that it is the same people that run both, but trade under different names.

Anyhow, I'm over £400 down but the car seems to be running fine, until last week.

Started off home from work, have a big hill to get up, well, not too bad but an incline. The car cuts right out, with no warning. I managed to pull over into a hedge. I turned the car off, took the key out of the ignition popped the bonnet, couldn't see or smell anything, fluids all fine. Got back in the car, turned the key, it started and no warning lights, all was well. Carried on but within half a mile, the same thing again. I got the RAC out and they recovered it to my Peugeot dealership, which was the nearest garage anyway.

It's been in since Friday and they looked at it yesterday and today. They say I need everything replacing in a nutshell!
I've not had a report as yet but this is from memory what they said:
Clutch
Gear Linkage
ECU- it's lost communication somewhere and can't do something with the engine (can't communicate?)
Rear Axle & Associated parts
Rear Brake Discs/Pads as part of the Axle
Power Steering Pump (?I think?)
Stepper Motor (? mentioned but not sure if it was just an idea or I definitely need a new one?)
Coil Pack
Software updates
?Head Gasket- car is overheating and there is water in the oil according to them.

And they say that might not stop the stalling issue! I know they are aware of problems with a fault that causes stalling but Peugeot kind of deny all knowledge of it, but it is widely reported on the net and various causes are cited.

There is more but I am waiting on seeing the service chap tomorrow to get the full list.

Basically, in a nutshell, they have said the car is not safe to drive and they recommend I have the car recovered from them back to the trader I bought from and demand my money back. I do want to get a second opinion from another garage (the one I do normally use- an independent), they have said they can recover it from Peugeot, I just need to settle the bill with Peugeot for the diagnostics first, which I will do tomorrow.

I telephoned the trader of Friday, I spoke to the 'assistant-manager' who said he was 'suprised' as the car had come from a main dealer part ex (what difference that makes?') and all their cars go out with a visual health check but I assume their visual health check might be selective, they only choose what they want to see!

I rang again on Saturday and spoke to the 'director', he categorically denied any fault with the car and said I needed to take it up with the warranty company and to 'F Off' (yes, really). I called them on Monday and was told there is only a £250 basic warranty on the car and basically 'tough', they won't cover it.

I rang and left a message for the trader on Monday as there was no answer, I also wrote a letter and hand delivered it (with photo on my phone!) last night stating their were faults with the car, I was getting it investigated by Peugeot, I would advise them of the outcome in writing and by telephone. I stated in writing and on the phone I would be considering rejecting the car under the sale of good act.

Basically, at the moment, I am stuck, I need a car for work, I work in construction and I need to go site to site to do my job and I also need it for the commute to work. I'm using my Mum's car this week as she is on annual leave but that can't go on indefinitely.

Peugeot say they 'can' rectify the issues but it is more than the car is worth and to be honest, I have lost faith in the car as well, even if I did have the money to fix it, I don't think it would ever give me any return financially.

Anyway, enough waffling, I have informed Santander today, they were moderately helpful, they were aware of Section 75, they said they 'might' be able to help, but only if the trader won't and I would have to give the trader a reasonable amount of time to rectify. Is this right? I know I can't really say 'trader wouldn't help last week and as such I want you to step in as it's now Tuesday!'. Where do I go now with the credit card company? Can I claim the full retail price of my car back from Santander? this car was £2495, they gave me £2000 part ex for my old car.

I am intending to get the report from Peugeot, which I expect to be 'worst case scenario' anyway, they do tend to detail every thing that *might* be wrong and the prices. I do want a second opinion for that reason, I don't have any reason to distrust Peugeot but I have a good relationship with my local garage and have used them for years and would just like their opinion. I will then provide copies to the trader and the warranty company for reference, is that OK?

I assume I need to allow the trader 'reasonable' time to offer a resolution. At this juncture, my resolution would be to offer a refund in full, they have sold my old car, so it is not like I can just take it back from them. How long should I allow them?

I very much doubt I will get any resolution from the trader, I have since googled the trader and have found numerous reports of them selling cars with head gasket failure, cars with gear boxes failing and with engine failure. I really wish I had done my homework and researched them first. There are a few good reviews too but not from people with problems!!

What do I do in regards to Section 75 with Santander? The lady I spoke to initially was helpful but didn't know a lot about the process, any insight would be helpful.

I am keeping a paper trail and will ensure I hand deliver letters as well as sending a copy recorded and a copy by first class post (I've done both today on copies on the letter I hand delivered). Anything else I should be doing?

Anyone's expertise or help in this is very much valued.

Thanks in advance.

Agricolae

First of all, Santander has not told you the whole truth. You don't have to give the dealer a chance, although in an ideal world of course you would.

Section 75 means Santander is jointly liable with the dealer, presuming you can tick all the right boxes:

- Credit card payment went direct to the dealership
- You bought the car for yourself
- There is a breach of contract/misrepresentation

You are doing all the right things though, to be honest.

My advice to you:

1. Make sure you get a report, in writing, from the Peugeot garage, detailing what needs fixing. An invoice/estimate may be fine. If possible, get the garage's opinion on whether the faults were present at the point of sale.

2. If you want, get the independent garage's report, but honestly it sounds like the car is a lemon and the Peugeot garage report may be enough.

3. Get your argument straight before calling Santander again. You need to claim under section 75 of the consumer credit act, for a breach of contract. The breach of contract is the fact the car you were sold has serious mechanical problems and had multiple worn out parts at the time it was sold to you. These worn out parts were not pointed out to you (I assume).

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 implies terms into any consumer contract that goods must be of "satisfactory quality". A car sold in such a state is not of satisfactory quality, therefore the dealer is in breach of contract.

As you have just discovered the breach and the car did not conform to the contract at the time of sale, you are looking to rescind/terminate the contract. In layman's terms, you want a full refund and for Santander to take the car away.

---

You will be able to claim back the full contract value (£2495), but most likely not the retail value of your old car. Technically-speaking, the remedy if you were rescinding the contract would be for Santander to pay you £495 and to give you your old car back. However I'm sure you appreciate they are not going to be able to do that. Difficulty may arise if you try to claim the retail value of the p/xed car, as "retail value" can be somewhat vague.

How much do you think your old car was worth at retail?

bris

Of course you have to give the dealer the chance, they have the right to put things right so they were telling the truth.

dexters_mum_2

My old car was on their forecourt for £2695 but realistically, I think it was probably worth about £1800-£1900, hence why I kind of looked before I leaped with what they offered me for part ex.

In an ideal world, I would like the value of £2495 back but I'm not sure I will get that from Santander and I know I will not get that from the trader!

meer53

You need to send the Peugeot report to Santander and allow the dealer time to respond. The Peugeot report is independant so you shouldn't need another one. If the dealer doesn't respond to your letter or refuses to help, then ask Santander to consider a Section 75 claim.

dexters_mum_2

I was just writing a further letter to the trader in readiness for the report from Peugeot. I'm hoping to have that report by close of business tomorrow, I will post 3 copies of the report and letter, hand, recorded and first class. That won't be received until Friday/Saturday, then allowing for the bank holiday, I am putting a deadline of 7th June for a remedy, does that sound fair?

shaun_from_Africa

There is no legal obligation for the purchaser to contact the supplier before attempting a S75 claim against the credit issuer.

If there has been a breech of contract, the consumer is perfectly at liberty to pursue the credit company for a resolution in the first instance.

George_Michael

dexters_mum wrote: »

Anyway, enough waffling, I have informed Santander today, they were moderately helpful, they were aware of Section 75, they said they 'might' be able to help, but only if the trader won't and I would have to give the trader a reasonable amount of time to rectify. Is this right?


I assume I need to allow the trader 'reasonable' time to offer a resolution. At this juncture, my resolution would be to offer a refund in full, they have sold my old car, so it is not like I can just take it back from them. How long should I allow them?

No it's not right and Santander are simply trying to fob you off.
The whole basis of "Section 75" means that the credit provider is equally liable with the trader for any breech of contract, hence they are equally responsible for putting it right.

Once you have written confirmation of the problems and of the fact that the car is unroadworthy, you will have more than enough evidence to back up your claim.
Following your conversation with the seller where you were told to FO, I would strongly suggest that you ignore the garage from now on and contact Santander again and insist that they send you the required paperwork for a S75 claim to be submitted.

chicken_licken_3

Sorry if this sounds stupid, can I ask what the OP would do with the car if the S.75 was successful and she got all the money back?
We're in a similar situation with a new car (1yr old) we paid via Barclaycard & our case has been going on about 6 weeks.

mattyprice4004

In theory the CC company would own it, however the only case I'm aware of was a friend of a friend who bought a Rover 45, advertised as being in good condition by a trader.

It really wasn't in the end, the waterpump was leaking which the trader 'fixed' (we later found K Seal in the coolant...!) and when it failed properly a week later, took out the head gasket and warped the head.

The garage would have nothing to do with it, and actually gave him a letter stating so, this came in rather handy later on.

He then contacted his CC company who lodged the claim, funnily enough the garage then got in touch asking why he was trying to 'scam' them (still not offering to repair though), they appealed but the CC company rejected. He got the whole amount back, and the CC company told him to dispose of the car as it was worth practically nothing broken.

With a friend and a few lazy beers we repaired the car, and it's still going strong over 3 years later. We did change the waterpump too!
For a 'free' car it's not bad (well, £120 in parts and about 6 hours of work between 2 of us).

Good luck, it can be done.

meer53

dexters_mum wrote: »

I was just writing a further letter to the trader in readiness for the report from Peugeot. I'm hoping to have that report by close of business tomorrow, I will post 3 copies of the report and letter, hand, recorded and first class. That won't be received until Friday/Saturday, then allowing for the bank holiday, I am putting a deadline of 7th June for a remedy, does that sound fair?

7th June is an unrealistic date for any remedy.

Section 75 claims can take months to resolve. There is a lot of work involved between card issuer and seller. Documents have to be looked at, correspondence will go backwards and forwards between the card issuer and the seller, this all takes time. Your card issuer won't be able to give you any definite timescale, it's a bit of a waiting game really. Prepare yourself.