Unauthorised Mobile Phone Usage

zagfles

mobilejunkie wrote: »

They don't. Sims all have a default pin which customers don't bother to use. I tell all the people I order for to immediately change and set not only the sim pin but also the phone pin. The networks have no liability for the age or naivity of its customers.

Didn't realise that - is it a new thing? Last few SIMs I've had didn't come with a PIN set, just inserted it and it came straight up and was able to make calls, no PIN required! Mind you they were PAYG, is it just on contract SIMs?

NFH

In many other countries, a SIM card's 4-digit PIN and 8-digit PUK are printed on the outer credit-card-sized part of the SIM card, often under a scratch-away covering. The PIN is also enabled by default. Because most customers quickly get fed up with entering a PIN that means nothing to them, they quickly change it to something they can remember - very similar to receiving a new credit card.

In the UK, the default PIN is usually 0000, 1111 or 1234 etc, depending on the network. The PIN is not enabled by default. Therefore many consumers are unaware that SIM cards are protected by PINs and don't bother to set a PIN. Ofcom should mandate that UK networks adopt the system used in other countries.

grumbler

mobilejunkie wrote: »

They don't. Sims all have a default pin which customers don't bother to use.

They don't bother to use it because the sim card is not locked by default. If it was pin-locked, the customers would have forced to either change the PIN or deliberately disable the lock thus accepting liability for any unauthorised usage. The same applies to the handsets.

mobilejunkie

True. Not all my people do set a pin; it's the first thing I do on every new contract. I would add that half the customer service advisers on most networks have no idea what you're talking about should you ask them for the default pin number - they generally start reeling off the imea number or ask what phone you're using - which is completely irrelevant. All sims have a default pin (both contract and PAYG) and have ever since I got my first one years ago. All people have to do is use it - like the phone pin (though I have had at least one smartphone where there wasn't one).

Guys_Dad

NFH wrote: »

Networks should by default impose:

• A PIN on SIM cards
• A bar on outgoing calls with a high cost price, e.g. UK premium rate numbers and international destinations with a high termination rate.

If consumers want to opt out of a PIN or the outgoing call bar, then they should be able to do so, but the above should be the default.

The problem is that you need 2 pins to be set.

The first activates when the phone is turned on (the sim pin) and is then ignored until the phone is turned off. OK that should prevent the sim being used in a different handset.

The second is the phone's pin that kicks in every time the phone goes onto screensaver or sleeps. This means that if the phone is stolen, except if you are mugged when using it, calls can't be made. Regrettably, it's a bit like a safety cord on a running machine or, tragically, on a motor boat as we have recently seen. People find it a fag to have to enter a 4 digit pin every time they want to use the phone and turn the facility off. Fair play, but then don't bleat about bad people running up bills.

Your daughter should have been told by you about these pins. No good saying "I didn't know." Just what theft prevention did you put in place for her or, evidently, you didn't consider it or let it cross your mind. No one lets their children take their cycles out without some lock. Or go on holiday abroad without some form of insurance and, when overseas, who doesn't get a hotel safe for their valuables. Some people don't even put passwords on their Voice Mail, for heaven's sake.

The list is endless, but, of course, in today's culture, it is someone else's fault. No good moaning about what the networks can or can't do. You have to live with the reality of what is in place and take the correct precautions until there are changes, or face the consequences.

wantmemoney

Guys_Dad wrote:

Your daughter should have been told by you about these pins. No good saying "I didn't know." Just what theft prevention did you put in place for her or, evidently, you didn't consider it or let it cross your mind. No one lets their children take their cycles out without some lock.

I was wondering how long it would take for this thread to get to the subject of irresponsible parenting

@The Real Stig and anyone else who have huge bills run up on lost/stolen phones.

research the topic to better understand what the calls and the bill represents

seek proper advice on how to properly dispute the bill.
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/

zagfles

Guys_Dad wrote: »

The problem is that you need 2 pins to be set.

The first activates when the phone is turned on (the sim pin) and is then ignored until the phone is turned off. OK that should prevent the sim being used in a different handset.

The second is the phone's pin that kicks in every time the phone goes onto screensaver or sleeps. This means that if the phone is stolen, except if you are mugged when using it, calls can't be made. Regrettably, it's a bit like a safety cord on a running machine or, tragically, on a motor boat as we have recently seen. People find it a fag to have to enter a 4 digit pin every time they want to use the phone and turn the facility off. Fair play, but then don't bleat about bad people running up bills.

It's really no hassle, takes me about 2 seconds to unlock my phone, I do it instinctively while taking it out of my pocket. My kids' smartphones have a "pattern lock" which is a bit more child-friendly - where you have to join the dots in a certain sequence, they decided themselves to put the lock on, probably worried about nosey parents :-) no big deal with their phones as they're PAYG.

Your daughter should have been told by you about these pins. No good saying "I didn't know." Just what theft prevention did you put in place for her or, evidently, you didn't consider it or let it cross your mind. No one lets their children take their cycles out without some lock. Or go on holiday abroad without some form of insurance and, when overseas, who doesn't get a hotel safe for their valuables. Some people don't even put passwords on their Voice Mail, for heaven's sake.

Who gets the blame when someone hacks into the voicemail? And who gets the compensation?

The list is endless, but, of course, in today's culture, it is someone else's fault. No good moaning about what the networks can or can't do. You have to live with the reality of what is in place and take the correct precautions until there are changes, or face the consequences.

Today's culture also likes to have a scapegoat, a single person or group to blame, "who's fault was it", rather than, as is obvious in cases like this and most real-world scenarios, understand the issue and realise there is more than one direction in which to point the finger of blame. Like the simpletons who think the financial crisis of the last few years is all down to the bankers.

Why did the network not supply a PIN-locked & activated SIM & phone. Why did they not recognise an unusal calling pattern? Why did the retailer not explain the dangers of professional thieves stealing phones in order to run up a big bill? Why did the OP not look into these things and insist on a PIN lock etc? Why get a contract phone for a child in the first place?

Also the mobile manufacturers - I believe some allow "ICE" contacts to be displayed/called from a locked device - what about a facility whereby you can dial or text numbers in the contact list without a PIN, but need a PIN to dial any other number (or to update the contacts, obviously). This would be useful for those who think it's too much hassle to PIN lock their phone all the time.

grumbler

zagfles wrote: »

...Why did the retailer not explain the dangers of professional thieves stealing phones in order to run up a big bill?

Because their job is to sell and to answer questions, not to lecture you. Do car dealers have to lecture you how dangerous and costly speeding can be? Do Tesco have to warn you about unhealthy eating?

Why get a contract phone for a child in the first place?

I think you wrongly presume that a 'daughter' is always a 'child'.

zagfles

grumbler wrote: »

Because their job is to sell and to answer questions, not to lecture you. Do car dealers have to lecture you how dangerous and costly speeding can be?

You don't need to pass a test to own a phone.

Do Tesco have to warn you about unhealthy eating?

They put fat content/sugar content etc on most of their packaging.

I think you wrongly presume that a 'daughter' is always a 'child'.

Possibly - but people do get contracts for their kids.

I think the main point is that, like on so many other forums, what is "obvious" to the regulars who know quite a bit about the subject, is not obvious to everyone else. Regular readers of this forum see this sort of story all the time, but ask 10 random people about the risk of getting a phone stolen and I bet most won't have considered the risk of a massive bill being run up in a short time. Ask how many have PIN locks on their contract phones/SIMs. Bet it's under half.

The_Real_Stig

Herongull wrote: »

If you choose to take out an uncapped phone contract, you are choosing to accept the risk of massive bills if the phone is lost or stolen - she was incredibly lucky that the bill was only £500. Many people get bills of thousands of £.

People who can't afford such losses go payg or capped like Tesco. This also avoids stress and hassle.

You have to take responsibility for the choices you make.

This is fine and dandy to take the responsibility for your choices if you are made aware of the potential risks. For your info my daughter was on a PAYG contract until she was sold up to a monthly contract by the shop!