Parking Eye - PCN and Debt Recovery Plus Letters

AnxiousMoneySaver

Hi. I often search the forum for advice but need to ask for some myself now and so here I am.

I received a PCN from Parking Eye back in early Feb 2013 for waiting in the car in a car park to pick up my husband.

All the advice back then was to ignore, and doing an appeal was not heavily advised either. So we did nothing.

From all the advice, I knew to expect the letters, and today received my second letter from Debt Recovery Plus, with strong words about it being sent to court. I am obviously too late to appeal now (or am I? I was driving but my husband is registered keeper) but should I keep ignoring or should I start doing something about it.

I think I am like most others who have posted - it's the first time I've ever had anything like this and would have paid it that evening that we received the first PCN.

I also saw some letters which someone had posted showing an example of the letters to expect which I found reassuring, but cannot find them now to see how they compare to the ones I've had from Debt Recovery Plus.

Help and advice much needed and appreciated.

Many thanks.

Stroma

Well you only have two options, either pay them or ignore them. You can't appeal unless your husband names you as the driver and then it starts from the beginning. Then you can appeal to popla if they reject what you challenge with. That is only really an option in England and Wales , if elsewhere just continue to ignore them.

DR+ / Zenith are toothless they can't do anything at all apart from sending junk mail. But Parking Eye do court so unless you are prepared to put your head above the parapet beware of that. Also read my signature don't put any more detail in your posts, because they employ people to scan this forum, and they are reading this right now.

AnxiousMoneySaver

Thanks for that. Would you recommend naming and starting again and going via the appeal route then?

My real argument is that the car wasn't even parked - just waiting. Does that matter??

Stroma

The car was parked just because you were in it, it was parked up as simple as that. But it still doesn't make the charge they are trying scam out of you reasonable or legitimate.

As for naming the driver, it depends how militant you are, in your position I would as it will rid yourself of these cretins permanatly. We can help you with an appeal to popla by the way.

But you haven't said if this is England or Wales yet, can you answer that as its pretty important, a simple yes or no will suffice.

AnxiousMoneySaver

Yes

And I quite like the idea of getting rid of all this. It is so stressful. I was counting on the fact that I was still in the car the whole time and willing to go all the way to court if necessary, purely on the principle of it. The engine was still running and the length of wait was due to delays (I hope this makes sense and am not being too cryptic now!).

By militant, do you mean continuing with the "ignore" route?

I understand what you are saying about DR+. We have had 2 letters in the last 3 weeks, which seems more frequent than other letters people have had. What can I expect to receive through the post next?

(Thanks so much. I feel so much better having just aired this and getting an educated reponse)

Stroma

Think coupon mad would know more about this than I , but I'm almost certain you can name another driver no matter at what stage you are at. Providing it hasn't gone to popla or the small claims. She will post here in a bit I hope

Coupon-mad

Yep just seen this - and I would say the rk should write and name the driver (to PE and not to the debt collector). It's an opinion put forward by the very knowledgeable broadsword from pepipoo forum who has vast info and contacts and attends the consumer panel at the DVLA (and complains about PPCs brilliantly!).

Broadsword says:

''For those RKs who had lost the chance of appealing to the PPC and then taking the case to POPLA there seemed to be nothing further that they could do other than try and weather the storm.

However, if the driver was not the RK then I believe that there is a glimmer of hope.

It would be possible, so long as proceedings haven't actually commenced against the RK, for the RK to provide the PPC with the name and address of the driver.

The logic is in what PoFA actually says

PoFA uses the words "the creditor has begun proceedings to recover any unpaid parking charges....".
This means that if those proceedings against the RK have been started and the RK then tells the PPC the name and address of the driver - tough it's too late.

However, if more than 28 days have passed and on, say day 53 where no court proceedings have been commenced, the RK tells the Creditor who the driver is, then they can't recover from the RK

That is what PoFA says

PoFA does not define "proceedings" but it means litigation. So once the court process has started there is no going back for the RK.

Once the driver has been identified to the PPC then the driver should be able to go through his/her own challenge/appeal process, first to the PPC and then to POPLA (well that's the theory)

PoFA trumps the BPA CoP every time.''

Stroma

Thanks Coupon I knew I saw it somewhere, and knew you had replied to it on here or over on pepipoo

AnxiousMoneySaver

Thanks Coupon-Mad. It was your advice I'd first seen on here about ignoring ignoring ignoring.

So it seems like the way to go forward from here is to stop ignoring and let PE know who the driver was. Then to appeal via POPLA (with help from the forum) and hope it gets accepted....

Would you mind giving me the link with all the recent information on being able to get through the appeal process? It must feel like so much repetition for you. I have read so much these last couple of months on various websites, it's all getting blurred and confusing. Which is frustrating. I usually feel so on top of it all.

So thanks again Stroma and Coupon-Mad for your help.

Coupon-mad

There isn't really a link, there's just every thread on here with info. I would say read some threads on the first couple of pages, they pretty much all discuss the appeals process.

It's just a simple email/post process:

appeal to the scammer, get a rejection letter and POPLA code

...then appeal to POPLA with our help to word it.

Start by looking at the POPLA decisions thread at the top of the parking forum to see the latest wins added recently.

Here are a few threads with POPLA appeals drafted and/or advice & links:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...7#post61207207

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...9#post60922079

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...5#post60291735

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?...st=20&start=20

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...4557127&page=2

As you can see it's NOT a matter of sending any old soft appeal about 'what happened'. It's about challenging the very basis of the fake PCN and the status of the company to even issue it.

It's a good game to find the legal or BPA breach point that will trip up your PPC - use strong legal challenge points you will see used on those threads (all started by inexperienced newbies who have learned quickly how to defeat the scammers).

So first you can try replying to PE (NOT the debt collector) saying you've just had a letter, are the registered keeper but were not driving so under the Protection of Freedoms Act you are exercising your right before proceedings commence, to name the driver who you believe was ......{name and address}. And by doing so you know that this means you can no longer be held liable, as proceedings have not been started, so they must now write to the driver alone and cease all contact with you.


HTH

AnxiousMoneySaver

Many thanks Coupon Mad.

I'll get a letter sent to PE to let them know who the driver was. Is there anything further to your example to put in the letter?

Reading through some of the process that others are going through, I am beginning to wonder whether I actually have a proper defence or not....