Can a refund on Paypal be reversed?

PollyOnAMission

Sorry if this has been asked elsewhere; I've had a search and couldn't find anything definite.

I bought an item from a private seller on Ebay; it was described as "in perfect working order" but it turned out to be faulty. The seller was very nice when I contacted them and agreed to refund me so I could then return it.

I originally paid via PayPal (funded from my credit card) and can see they have refunded me in my Paypal account (Type: Refund From, Payment Status: Completed). My PayPal balance is zero, but this refund will be going onto the credit card I originally used to purchase the item, right?

Can this refund be reversed in any way, or is it safe for me to return the item now? Should I wait until it arrives on my credit card?

I asked the seller if they would split the cost of return postage with me; he said when he refunded there wasn't an option to add more money. However he did say he'd be happy for me to send it cheaper than special delivery (he said he'd be happy to take a risk with uninsured post because he doubts the faulty item is worth much). Am I right in thinking I really want to send it recorded at the very least, so I can get proof of delivery? The original purchase price was £150 by the way.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Manchee

So the seller has refunded you before receiving the item back?

PollyOnAMission

Yep, they have!

onetwothree123

This is odd, I can't think why someone already refunded without you delivering the dud item back, they are either very trusting or very stupid , as you have "allegedly" a full refund AND an also have ownership of the said item worth £150, and they have not used ebay returns?

People can pay extra for post so don't be fobbed off(and extras etc )everyone has a have a facility to PAY you any extra amounts by just tapping in your email address and sending "gift" (so paypal don't charge you a fee).

I haven't used my CC to buy anything on paypal for a while but I would be checking my CC account and if you are a paper-only it will be up to 4 weeks to get your next statement. If you have online banking it should show in a day or so IF it goes directly back on the CC as we assume.

Paypal also tell you to use a signed for service to return/post items and recorded could go missing, parcelforce48 is a reasonably priced service to use, and IS tracked, recorded delivery is supposed to be ONLY for posting letters to a lawyer and documents that are worth £0 and nothing else ,ie paper items you need to prove someone signed for ie court papers , etc. if you use a different method ie is not tracked every step, for expensive items and the seller claims no item has been sent back they can do a chargeback later as it risks being lost in the post. And it is strange how they said "dont worry I will take the risk of YOU posting it" but it is YOU who risk losing £150 -not them? (nb they do claim to offer up to £50 in compensation of lost 1st class recorded items I don't think they would pay that back as they could counter argue wrong service was used to carry an expensive item!)

Don't fall for any cons or traps, I get suspicious just reading this that they are up to no good, so do check and double check the refund clears before doing anything , but before you do anything , give PAYPAL a call to clarify whereabouts the money is and if it has cleared yet, and THEN return the item, using a tracked service with insurance up to £150, (as most couriers are £50 and PF 48 has just £100 cover included.)

onetwothree123

as a ps to above....if the carrier (ie parcelforce) lose the item or anything, they would only repay you up to £100, and if a courier took it and you didnt pay the extra couple of quid to insure it for £150 all they would give you back is a max of £50 if they "lost it" somehow, despite you providing evidence it cost £150 ,they would not give that back and the seller would also be under no obligation and would do a chargeback as well up to 6mths later. And if you send it via recorded, the max RM can give back for loss is £50 too. So it is not the right service!

Keep yourself right, first port of call, Paypal customer service call!

harveybobbles

A courier would only pay out to the value that they cover for for free. most is £20 these days.

When I use couriers one of the questions on screen is value of item and it then offeres you to cover it for an extra fee.

PollyOnAMission

Thanks for your reply.

I've never had to return an item like this on Ebay and the seller said they'd never had to do a return either, so neither of us knew what we were doing. I looked into it and suggested I could "open a case", which would give them the option of refunding me, but they said they thought it could be much simpler by just refunding me on PayPal. As for refunding me before I sent the item...yes, I was also surprised. Perhaps they thought that someone would have to take the risky first move; either I'd post it first and risk them not sending me the money back, or they'd refund me first and risk me not posting it?! I don't know what the normal procedure would be. I check my CC account online daily anyway, so will notice a refund as soon as it comes in.

Thanks for the postage advice. As I understood, what they were saying was that as they would have already refunded me when I posted it (subject to it clearing etc), they would be the one who would lose out if the item went missing rather than me because I'd already have my money back. This is why I was asking about whether PayPal refunds could be reversed in any way; if I sent the item and it never arrived (or they claimed as such), could they somehow cancel my refund? Their refund was done specifically as a refund for the Ebay item rather than a gift payment or otherwise, i.e. it says "refund" in my PayPal account.

I like to think I am fairly on-the-ball when it comes to not falling for scams, but it can be so hard to tell! This guy really does seem genuine and has all good feedback etc. It might be that he's just inexperienced with returns (as he said he is), or it might be something weird. It's just hard working out where the scam could be, assuming this refund goes through OK, so that's where I need help!

PollyOnAMission

Can someone do a chargeback for a refund, or is that only for normal payments? This is what I was wondering...now I've received the money in PayPal as a refund (subject to it clearing on my CC etc), can he take it back again?

PollyOnAMission

This is how it appears on my PayPal account.

Original Transaction
13th May 2013 Payment to xxxx Refunded -£amount

Related Transactions
13th May 2013 Charge from Credit Card Completed £amount
20th May 2013 Refund Completed £amount
20th May 2013 Credit to Credit Card Completed -£amount

It isn't showing up on my CC online transactions yet.

onetwothree123

It looks like it has gone onto your credit card directly from theirs, as you say the blind leading the blind regarding who pays what for a return, just odd they sent the money back so quick without even inspecting the goods or having them back, hmmm, be cautious is all I'm saying, and recheck your balance on your online page of CC , but keep yourself right, and always hang onto to tracking numbers and paper receipts for at least 6mths if there is any comeback, but be aware that people can and do reverse paypal payment pretending that someone else instigated it and used card without their knowledge it is probably a small risk ,as they could just be a bit dippit but not malicious and everything will work out ok but I feel like saying HMMMM a lot when I wonder why they were so keen to repay you, I feel a sense of nervousness!

PollyOnAMission

Thank you, I will certainly proceed with caution! I've emailed PayPal customer services to ask what the best course of action is.

With regard to them seeing the fault: the item was a camera and some of the pictures it was taking were seriously flawed. I sent them some example images so they have seen some evidence of the problem, but other than that they are relying on taking my word for it. Hopefully this will just be a case of both of us being very trustworthy, trusting and polite! But you can never be too careful these days.