Yet another deposit post...betterment?

bananz

Hi all,

I know this is a bit *yawn*, but we're having problems with our landlord after moving out of rented accommodation on 22 April.

It was a furnished flat, but before we agreed the let, we asked the landlord if we could remove the 2 double beds that were there as we had our own kingsize bed and 2 year old twins who had their own beds. This was agreed as an additional clause in the letting agreement which stated that we agreed to replace the beds "like for like" on moving out.

The bed in the master bedroom was an old pine double bed with a cheap old mattress and in the second bedroom was a super poor quality and condition divan and mattress that I would not have slept on for all the tea in china.

Upon moving out, we left our own king size bed and mattress behind as we were upgrading and replaced the second bed with a much better quality divan base and mattress.

Anyway, after much chasing the letting agent, the landlord has finally come back and claimed that as the bed we left is not exactly the same as the old one, we need to pay for it! He was originally claiming the entire purchase price for bed and mattress (£380:rotfl:) but reduced this to £230 when we refused. Additional costs he is wanting to charge are cleaning at £50 (despite the fact we had it professionally cleaned ourselves) and £10 for lightbulbs that were out. We initially proposed a total deduction of £150 in goodwill and have now offered £200 just to settle the matter. If he doesn't agree, we'll have to go through the dispute process with Safe Deposit Scotland, which the letting agent says takes 2-3 months.

Can anyone advise what our position is on this? I mean, second hand pine double beds go on gumtree for £30-50 and in any case, "like for like" was not defined in the contract and we took it to mean a 2 person bed for a 2 person bed.

If we didn't need the money in a hurry I'd be tempted to dispute the whole amount on the principle alone but we have a new house to furnish and a new baby so can't just kiss that money goodbye!

Any wisdom gratefully received!

Thanks a million!

Dave_the_Ginger_Cat

If you've made a number of attempts at agreement, I fear you'll need to go through the dispute process.

In relation to the beds it sounds like you have left in a good position. You'll need to make sure that they have teh correct safety/fire labels, and if you have before/after photos that will help.

In relation to the cleaning, I might ask for a receipt from him.


Good luck. I know it's a pain but the protection of deposits has made it useful for a third party to arbitrate

bananz

Thanks Dave! Unfortunately we were that stressed out with moving with a 4 week-old baby that we didn't remember to take any photos before handing back the keys so it's pretty much all down to our word over his I guess?

They have just come back to offer £190 for the bed plus cleaning etc.

Been talking to my husband and wondering if we should just dispute the whole amount over and above the lightbulbs and cleaning (I'm picking my battles lol) and withdraw our offer to pay towards the bed at all. Just don't want to risk ending up with even less back?

I think the main issue is the lack of definition of "like for like" in the extra clause in the contract. Do you think it was reasonable of us to have just taken that to mean a 2-person bed for a 2-person bed? Our bed was a kingsize mid-range Ikea job and about 4 years old. His bed was an stained pine and black metal double, 5-10 years old. Both in a similar condition. Am I also right in thinking that any charge should only be for the replacement cost of a second hand pine bed and we would be within our rights to reclaim ours (not that we want to, but in principle!)?

Gah it all feels so petty, but getting £600 back as opposed to £340 represents a significant amount of extra decorating/furniture in our new house and I hate feeling taken advantage of!!

G_M

My own interpretation of 'like for like' is a similar style/size bed as well as similar condition.

Surely the implied idea here was that things would be the same as if you had not got rid of the L's bed at all?

Simplest solution would have been to store his beds. Could they not have been dismantled and stored in the attic? Well - too late now.

If you can find a 2nd hand pine double, and 2nd hand divan, buy these are leave for him. Like-for-like and he can't complain.

Otherwise he will be entitled to buy a replacement himself, but yes, as you say, he cannot claim the price of a brand new one.

As for the cleaning, what was the condition when you moved in? And when you moved out? Has he explained what aspect of the property was dirty and required cleaning? Did you 'professional cleaners' perhaps miss something (oven? dust behind furniture?).

If this were Eng, I would advise you ask these Qs and unless he has a good explanation, go to arbitration (as with the bed), but Scotland is a mystery to me!

As for the scheme - again, no experience, but 2-3 months sounds a lot. Are you sure the agent is not trying to scare you into coming to an agreement? Have you asked the scheme?

moromir

I too would have expected "like for like" to result in you leaving a double size (not kingsize) pine frame with mattress and the equivilent in the other bedroom.

bananz

Thanks folks. Maybe we have misinterpreted it then (although having worked in a law firm, I could say that there should have been no room for interpretation!), but the problem is that it is now nearly a month since we moved out, new tenants have moved in and as far as I know they are using our bed without complaint! I very much doubt that the new tenants will now want to be disturbed by having one bed taken away and another put in place! As it was a 1st floor flat, there was no option to store the beds, hence the additional clause in the agreement.

Regarding the cleaning, they specifically stated the windows needed cleaning and I'm happy to concede that and can't be bothered disputing the amount, but we left the flat cleaner than when we moved in - indeed the letting agent remarked upon the cleanliness during the check out visit!

I think the deposit protection schemes in England and Scotland are pretty comparable as far as I know.

I guess I'm just wondering what is reasonable. £190 (50% of the original purchase price) when a comparable bed can be bought on gumtree for £30 and retaining the bed we left does not seem reasonable to me!

Also, there has been no account taken of the fact that the second bed we left was actually newer, better quality and in better condition than the previous one which would have otherwise needed replacing at the end of this tenancy. TBH I didn't expect it to be, but I feel like we have always acted in good faith and that fact is being completely ignored!

ognum

Just a couple of points, I think this is important for those moving into furnished accommodation, if you don't use the furniture provided you need to either store it carefully or get the landlord to remove it.

Whilest not disputing the state of the landlords furniture I can't imagine the furniture you left was that great or you wouldn't have left it!

G_M

bananz wrote: »

Thanks folks. Maybe we have misinterpreted it then (although having worked in a law firm, I could say that there should have been no room for interpretation!), ....
:rotfl: If that were true lawyers would go out of business!

Regarding the cleaning, they specifically stated the windows needed cleaning and I'm happy to concede that
In that case it seems a justified expense
and can't be bothered disputing the amount, but we left the flat cleaner than when we moved in
except the windows from what you say...
- indeed the letting agent remarked upon the cleanliness during the check out visit!

Why not write with a 'best & final offer' marked 'without prejudice', pointing out all the points above about new bed etc, and say that it would be better/easier for all concerned it resolve amicably as above, but that failing this you willleave it up to the deposit scheme arbitrators.

bananz

ognum wrote: »

Whilest not disputing the state of the landlords furniture I can't imagine the furniture you left was that great or you wouldn't have left it!

Lol - the condition was fine - we're just greedy and wanted to upgrade to a superking bed! :beer:

bananz

G_M wrote: »

Why not write with a 'best & final offer' marked 'without prejudice', pointing out all the points above about new bed etc, and say that it would be better/easier for all concerned it resolve amicably as above, but that failing this you willleave it up to the deposit scheme arbitrators.

We will probably do just this, but what would you consider a fair amount for the bed? £190? £50? £0? What of the fact that our bed has been accepted and is now in use by the current tenants? If the landlord hadn't dragged his heels so much about the whole issue, we could have uplifted the bed and replaced it with one more acceptable to him before the new tenants moved in a week or so ago!

Regarding the windows, they were only as dirty as when we moved in!