Unprotected Deposit - Landlord Withholding It - Help

Dom_UK

Hi folks. So I have a bit of a long one that I need advising on please. I am just after some objective advice, and I am not here to be judged, hehe. There is effectively 2 issues here. One being the one mentioned in the title.

I moved into a property last year in June - I paid my deposit by cash, and my first month's rent. It never went into a DPS, however, I was naively fine with this. It was via a private landlord of course.

Fast forward 6 months or so. I was in prison, and my landlord made the decision to use my deposit to pay for rent arrears without my consent - however I didn't argue much when I found out, as I was mostly interested in having somewhere to live when I came out.

Fast forward several months more. The neighbour was complaining about noise within the house I lived in. It was a houseshare with 4 occupants including myself. None of us were excessively quiet, but many of the complaints were not due to me, or me alone. I wont go into the details of this, but my neighbour took a disliking to me specifically, mainly because I was always the one happy to converse with him about any issues. In short, he was an odd guy, and disliked even me and 1 housemate watching a film quietly, one night - but this is neither here nor there at the moment. I would just like to dispel the idea that I am a neighbour from hell; this is not the case I assure you.

As a result of these complaints, the landlord has agreed with the neighbour - not me - that he would move me on, and me alone. I disagreed at first, and threatened legal action against my unfair eviction. He then came up with a plan, to suit everyone...

He has another house, which was going to be empty within 3-4 months. It was going to be refurbed, and he asked that we move into that. However, in the mean time, I had to move elsewhere. Reluctantly I agreed. I now live elsewhere, in his property manager's property, under the guise that we would all be moving into the new property once we had signed the contracts with the letting agency that he uses.

He has now told us, and away from what was originally, verbally agreed, that he will not be transferring any of our deposits back so that we can use them for the new property. He will be giving them back at the end of the tenancy. And for me specifically, he has told me that I no longer have a deposit as it was used for a arrears long ago.

I have no new contract signed for this new place that I am in temporarily - but I am paying rent as normal. Similarly my contract for the previous place was loose at best. It's my understanding that it's effectively a rolling contract - or was.

So my questions are as follows:

Do I have any right to occupy the previous address?
Despite rent arrears, can he lawfully withhold my deposit?
What should I do, basically. I am quite confused as to what the best course of action is. HALP.

Thanks in advance!

G_M

Do I have any right to occupy the previous address?
Difficult to be sure from your post, but it appears you agreed to an' Early Surrender' of the property - LL asked you to move out. You (returned keys and?) moved out. Tenancy ended. No right to return.

Despite rent arrears, can he lawfully withhold my deposit?
At the time the tenancy ended (see above), you had rent arrears. The LL could therefore use your deposit to cover those arrears.

However the fact that he did not register the deposit gives you the right to claim up to 3 times the deposit as penalty. You would have to take legal action for this. If the arrears were greater than the deposit, the LL could counter-claim any outstanding rent.

What should I do, basically. I am quite confused as to what the best course of action is. HALP.

It might help if you explained what kind of tenancy you originallu had: Fixed Term? Dates? But I don't think it will alter what I've said above.

You now have a new tenancy, in a new property. Since there is no written contractfor this (as I understand it), this is a verbal contract. If no Term was agreed (eg 6 months, or a year), it will be assumed to be a Contractual Periodic Tenancy.

The LL cannot evict you for 6 months, and must give you 2 months notice.
You must give him 1 month notice at any time.
(in both cases, notice must end with a tenancy period eg 1st of month or whenever you moved in).

If the LL wants a new eposit from you, for the new tenancy, it is too late for him to ask for one.

What exactly do you want? To stay where you are? To move again? Where to? When?

tbs624

G_M wrote: »

Do I have any right to occupy the previous address?
Difficult to be sure from your post, but it appears you agreed to an' Early Surrender' of the property - LL asked you to move out. You (returned keys and?) moved out. Tenancy ended. No right to return.

Despite rent arrears, can he lawfully withhold my deposit?
At the time the tenancy ended (see above), you had rent arrears. The LL could therefore use your deposit to cover those arrears.

The arrears appear to have built up whilst the OP was in prison G_M ( ie around end of 2012/start of 2013), rather than at the more recent point when the OP was asked by the LL to "temporarily" move to another property.

OP has also not said whether his original tenancy agreement ( if a written one was provided) contained a term referring to the tenancy deposit being used to clear arrears, although he said the LL's decision was without his consent as T?

Clearly if original tenancy was an AST then LL should have (a) scheme registered this tenancy deposit *and*(b) provided the scheme's prescribed information
OP - you may like to speak to someone at the housing charity Shelter 0808 800 4444 for guidance, or to the local Council's private sector tenancy relations officer rather than just relying on forum posters.

Dom_UK

Many thanks for the replies - let me clear up a few points.

- I am 2 months behind on rent. It was more, but I have since caught up considerably.

- He will claim I owe hime 11x£25, which he says was for water, internet and council tax. I was originally told the rent amount was all inclusive (I later found it was not inclusive of energy bills, but I accepted this as misunderstanding). Forward 7 months, he sent me an email itemising my debt, and had added on £25 to each month I had been there. Nothing had ever been mentioned of this previously, both verbally or contractually, so I have refused to pay it. Even with this totalled, it is still less than 3 months rent.

- My contract was initially 6 months. I was never resigned to denote any fixed tenancy after this.

- My aim is to recover my deposit and move on with my old housemates, who are also being evicted due to the fact he wants to renovate property they are currently in.

I emailed the landlord last night requesting the deposit, otherwise I would continue legal proceedings. His responses are erratic and his words sound much like those of a man who is !!!!!!!! himself.

Dom_UK

I have just received this email:

Find somewhere else then. I will drop a termination notice to sharrow today.

Very disappointed in you Dom. I have worked with you, your dad, council and prison. I have covered your shortfall from my own pocket and yet you still want to play the victim.

I didn't have to offer you sharrow and Richard didn't want / have to offer you Walton. I have also been informed you haven't changed jobs just made it up. Another lie.

You need my help and don't need to threaten me. I really don't care. Take me to court, citizens advice, council ... Already in the process with another tenant so I will forward my solicitors details if you want. Either way the tenant is no longer in the property. I don't do this job for grief.

So final suggestion is as follows. And I mean final. If you don't accept this then please !!!! right off. Written in an email to be shown to the world. Seriously bored of it.

Work out what you owe. Work out what you earn and can pay monthly to clear any debt. Agree this with me by midday and I will pay the deposit to dove for you myself.

bebewoo

Your landlord seems to have been very patient with you.
Your life is a mess, prison, rent arrears, etc.
You should be grateful that he has put up with all of this for so long.
He could evict you for non payment of rent if 2 months are owing, but he seems for some reason to be being easy on you, are you related or family friends or something?

Also you owe him that deposit money and more as rent so why should you get it back?

Why not put all of this behind you and move on and go live somewhere else.
Your landlord is not your dad, he is not personally responsible for you, for him it is a business. You need to stop expecting people to do everything for you and stand on your own two feet.

Dom_UK

I am not here to receive or debate opinions on the morality of the matter. Do not waste your time with such responses.

bebewoo

Yes I can see that morality is no concern of yours

Dom_UK

It is, but your opinion is not.

I have written a very brief overview of the situation, including the cold facts. If my purpose was to persuade, then I would have included much more. For you to conclude based up on very little, makes you presumptuous, and invalidates your opinion from having any major impact.

tbs624

Dom_UK wrote: »

Many thanks for the replies - let me clear up a few points.

- I am 2 months behind on rent. It was more, but I have since caught up considerably.

....which means that the LL can use a S8 Notice to proceed to court aiming for repossession of the property

Dom_UK wrote: »

- He will claim I owe hime 11x£25, which he says was for water, internet and council tax. I was originally told the rent amount was all inclusive (I later found it was not inclusive of energy bills, but I accepted this as misunderstanding). Forward 7 months, he sent me an email itemising my debt, and had added on £25 to each month I had been there. Nothing had ever been mentioned of this previously, both verbally or contractually, so I have refused to pay it. Even with this totalled, it is still less than 3 months rent.

What did your original tenancy agreement say about these charges? Were they clearly listed as being the responsibility of the T or of the LL?
Was the tenancy agreement that you signed a single contract signed only by you, for use of one room plus shared communal space? Perhaps a regular poster called CIS, who is knowledgeable on C Tax, will join the thread and comment on liability for CT whilst in prison.

Is the original property a licensable HMO ( house in multiple occupation)? If it should have been licensed but isn't and LL is successfully prosecuted for failure to register then Ts can seek
repayment of their rent.

Reminder that the OP may like to heed what G_M said about pursuing any lack of deposit registration/provision of scheme's prescribed information.

tbs624

bebewoo wrote: »

Your landlord seems to have been very patient with you.
Your life is a mess, prison, rent arrears, etc.
You should be grateful that he has put up with all of this for so long.
He could evict you for non payment of rent if 2 months are owing, but he seems for some reason to be being easy on you, are you related or family friends or something?

Also you owe him that deposit money and more as rent so why should you get it back?

Why not put all of this behind you and move on and go live somewhere else.*
Your landlord is not your dad, he is not personally responsible for you, for him it is a business. You need to stop expecting people to do everything for you and stand on your own two feet.

My bolding.

Bit of spleen there, bebewoo.

There is insufficient info in the thread so far for you to be able to justify all of your assertions about the OP and his circumstances.

*OP says he wishes to do just that, but needs funds to do so hence trying to recover his (possibly unregistered) tenancy deposit from the LL.

If LL wants shut of any of his Ts he has to follow the correct procedures to regain possession. He also is obliged *by law* to deal correctly with each and every T's tenancy deposit funds.

If the LL wants to recover unpaid rent he is able to use the courts to try to do so. Likewise, any T who needs to challenge deductions/lack of deposit reg/provision of necessary paperwork can do so via the courts.