Put Off Going Self Employed As A Writer

osdset

neverdespairgirl wrote: »

Although it's still being self-employed, there is a real difference between setting up a business (say, a restaurant) and being self-employed as a service industry (say, a cleaner, or a window cleaner).

I'm self-employed, and my expenses were very few and limited to work I actually did, so although I didn't make much my first year of working, I did make some money.

Your first point:

I agree there are different categories of self employment, I would argue that many 'ostensibly' self employed people are in actual fact employed in reality, the difference being that they pay their own tax and insurance, my 'acid test' of self employment would be, can I send someone else to take my place? If the answer is yes then I'm self employed.

Point two:

You state that you did not make much in the first year, so if you were claiming benefits for that initial year you could probably get by, year two sees the benefit element withdrawn so you would have to increase your income significantly to cover outgoings, which would be no mean feat.

I'm all for people taking the bull by the horns and going it alone, be aware of the possible consequences and pitfalls is the point I am trying to get over, there isn't much in the way of a safety net for failed businesses!

neverdespairgirl

osdset wrote: »

Your first point:

I agree there are different categories of self employment, I would argue that many 'ostensibly' self employed people are in actual fact employed in reality, the difference being that they pay their own tax and insurance, my 'acid test' of self employment would be, can I send someone else to take my place? If the answer is yes then I'm self employed.

Point two:

You state that you did not make much in the first year, so if you were claiming benefits for that initial year you could probably get by, year two sees the benefit element withdrawn so you would have to increase your income significantly to cover outgoings, which would be no mean feat.

I'm all for people taking the bull by the horns and going it alone, be aware of the possible consequences and pitfalls is the point I am trying to get over, there isn't much in the way of a safety net for failed businesses!

I don't agree. I'm a barrister, which is definitely self-employed, and my clients would get pretty shirty if they booked Mr. A and Mr. B showed up with no warning.

Writers are self-employed, often, as are artists. Doesn't mean John Grisham or Damien Hirst can send someone else along if they can't be bothered.

My outgoings are very heavily linked to my income, so it was not that difficult to make a profit. Hard work, though.

chris1973

Write the book in-between doing the Job applications and claiming JSA, then when you have a publisher interested and a written business plan you can go self employed and re-examine the situation.

Plenty of people start up a new business around raising a family and working full time, yes it means giving up some hours at weekends and in the evenings but if they are serious about making it work then they'll do it, and they WILL find the time, even if it means giving up a social life etc etc..

I don't imagine dedicating 30 hours to writing a book is any different to somebody dedicating 30 hours towards setting up a shop or a car valeting business.

I'm pretty certain that if somebody can find those 30 hours a week to start up their self employed business alongside already working 37+ hours a week full time, then its certainly do-able whilst on JSA, and so unless you can guarantee that the money is going to be rolling in from day #1 I don't see why you can't delay going self employed and start writing a / the book, now, in your current situation.

How the hell are you supposed to even BEGIN a business if you have these looney red-tape barriers

Have you actually got a book / material written and ready to be published?

Book = a Product, regardless of the 'red tape' and how frustrated you are with the 'system' you aren't a business unless you have a product or service to sell, end of (Nobody will take you seriously until that point)

However, the first thing that you should really be Authoring, if you haven't done so already, is a very detailed and concise business plan.

Dogger69

chris1973 wrote: »

Have you actually got a book written and ready to be published?

Book = a Product, you aren't a business unless you have a product or service to sell, end of (Nobody will take you seriously until that point)

However, the first thing that you should be Authoring is a very detailed and concise business plan.

From the OP's earlier link, it appears he writes short horror stories.

Truegho, I would question whether there is sufficient income in your proposed self employment to ever make a comfortable income. The people that do make money from this sort of thing tend to be aiming at different genres (fashion and technology being primary examples), and their income comes from companies wanting them to push their products. This does not apply to your field, so how do you intend to generate a reliable and liveable income?

Truegho

chris1973 wrote: »

Write the book in-between doing the Job applications and claiming JSA, then when you have a publisher interested and a written business plan you can go self employed and re-examine the situation.

Plenty of people start up a new business around raising a family and working full time, yes it means giving up some hours at weekends and in the evenings but if they are serious about making it work then they'll do it, and they WILL find the time, even if it means giving up a social life etc etc..

I don't imagine dedicating 30 hours to writing a book is any different to somebody dedicating 30 hours towards setting up a shop or a car valeting business.

I'm pretty certain that if somebody can find those 30 hours a week to start up their self employed business alongside already working 37+ hours a week full time, then its certainly do-able whilst on JSA, and so unless you can guarantee that the money is going to be rolling in from day #1 I don't see why you can't delay going self employed and start writing a / the book, now, in your current situation.

Have you actually got a book / material written and ready to be published?

Book = a Product, regardless of the 'red tape' and how frustrated you are with the 'system' you aren't a business unless you have a product or service to sell, end of (Nobody will take you seriously until that point)

However, the first thing that you should really be Authoring, if you haven't done so already, is a very detailed and concise business plan.

I have already published a number of my own books on Amazon Kindle, and I am pleased to say that sales are steadily increasing. I hope to put more and more on. I also have a website showcasing my work.

So, bearing all this in mind, why is it that some people in officialdom still seem to regard going self employed as a "writer" as questionable when trying to claim Working Tax Credit?

antrobus

Truegho wrote: »

...So, bearing all this in mind, why is it that some people in officialdom still seem to regard going self employed as a "writer" as questionable when trying to claim Working Tax Credit?

I'd guess because in order to be eligible for WTC you need to be working for a given number of minimum working hours. For many self employed activities there is a fairly direct relationship between hours worked and income, but writers?

It would be fairly easy for some to (for example) write one book that was published and generated some income, then claim they were a writer, working 8 hours a day on their next magnum opus, whereas they were really sat at home watching reruns of Murder She Wrote whilst waiting for inspiration.

ComeTheRevolution

Dogger69 wrote: »

From the OP's earlier link, it appears he writes short horror stories.

Truegho, I would question whether there is sufficient income in your proposed self employment to ever make a comfortable income. The people that do make money from this sort of thing tend to be aiming at different genres (fashion and technology being primary examples)

WTC exist to enable someone to have 'a comfortable income'. Very few writers become rich, most have a 'day job' and JK Rowling was claiming benefit while she wrote Harry Potter.

Horror always sells as a fiction genre and as I said earlier, if he's making £50/month already then he's on his way. Kindles sell on reviews so it's a snowball effect.

Fashion/Technology is a different field altogether but he wasn't asking marketing advice.

'Author' may be a more acceptable 'business' title but really the O/P needs to connect with writers forums for more pertinent experience of WTC.

Truegho

antrobus wrote: »

I'd guess because in order to be eligible for WTC you need to be working for a given number of minimum working hours. For many self employed activities there is a fairly direct relationship between hours worked and income, but writers?

It would be fairly easy for some to (for example) write one book that was published and generated some income, then claim they were a writer, working 8 hours a day on their next magnum opus, whereas they were really sat at home watching reruns of Murder She Wrote whilst waiting for inspiration.

Not necessarily. What about time spent promoting your writer's website on social networks like Twitter, researching new topics for future books, etc.?

seven-day-weekend

Truegho wrote: »

What a crazy assumption that your business must earn a minimum wage before it can be classed as a business. Totally, totally ridiculous! How the hell are you supposed to even BEGIN a business if you have these looney red-tape barriers?

That's all very well, start your business by all means, but why should the State top it up? Do it alongside existing work, or get a part-time job to subsidise it until it can stand alone. That's what people used to do in the days before Tax Credits.

Dovah_diva

It very much looks like you're prepared to move the goalposts depending on which benefit you can claim. In one post you work 30 hours + and in the next it'll be under 16.

Truegho wrote: »

<snip>I told them my initial anticipated earnings would be just over £200 per month (from book sales) and that I would be working 30hrs pwk on my business

Truegho wrote: »

But if I only spent a few hours a week working on my business, as long as it didn't transcend the 16hrs, I would just tell the jobcentre how much I had earned for that month, and they would deduct it accordingly from my JSA?

You need to be honest about the time spent on your writing (sorry, but I can't call it is a business). However, I see no reason why you can't write in between job hunting - and then write when you're not working. I do not think it is reasonable to ask to the tax payer to support you while you write short stories that earn very little. At this stage it's very much a hobby and not a business.