reasonable housekeeping figures DRO

inneedofsomehelp

can anyone help? i am looking to find out acceptable Food, toiletries, cleaning figures for 2 adults and 3 children in regard to a debt relief order. I am filling in the CCS debt remedy and it is specifically this figure i am struggling on. It is suggesting £100 per month for 2 adults and 3 children!

People just keep saying put what you spend, but thats next to nothing as its cheap meals at the moment, not what i would call a proper meal.

I am marrying my oh in the near future and we are moving in together so if we go 50/50 on these costs so i am assuming if i can get an acceptable amount from you good people i can just half it ?

Also our agreement with regards money is 50/50 on most things but say i wanted to claim the full amount for 1 'section' related to child expenses (my children aren't my hubby to be) would that be allowed?

for example say childcare is £300 a month is it ok for me to claim the full £300 because i am paying it or will the DRO unit think he should pay half? We want to do it this way as he has another child and pays for their childcare so i cannot expect him to pay for her childcare THEN pay for half of mine

UpToMyNeckInIt

I don't kno9w what guidance they use in DRO's, but in an IVA they refer to the 'Stepchange Budget Guidelines 2012'

Google it, and download the 'doc' link. Well worth a read.

Going by that, you are allowed a guideline figure for 'food, toiletries and cleaning' of £480pcm (guideline), but up to £587 (maximum).

Depth_Charge

inneedofsomehelp wrote: »

can anyone help? i am looking to find out acceptable Food, toiletries, cleaning figures for 2 adults and 3 children in regard to a debt relief order. I am filling in the CCS debt remedy and it is specifically this figure i am struggling on. It is suggesting £100 per month for 2 adults and 3 children!

People just keep saying put what you spend, but thats next to nothing as its cheap meals at the moment, not what i would call a proper meal.

I am marrying my oh in the near future and we are moving in together so if we go 50/50 on these costs so i am assuming if i can get an acceptable amount from you good people i can just half it ?

Also our agreement with regards money is 50/50 on most things but say i wanted to claim the full amount for 1 'section' related to child expenses (my children aren't my hubby to be) would that be allowed?

for example say childcare is £300 a month is it ok for me to claim the full £300 because i am paying it or will the DRO unit think he should pay half? We want to do it this way as he has another child and pays for their childcare so i cannot expect him to pay for her childcare THEN pay for half of mine

Hi

Maybe take a look through the latest set of DRO Intermediary Guidence notes, they do explain DROs very well from the Intermediarys side so to speak (link below)

http://www.i-m-a.org.uk/pdfs/dro-guidance-comments.pdf

Section 8 covers income & expenditure - The Common Financial Statement (CFS) is used in DROs which the last time I looked is more generous than the Stepchange figures and it has very recently been updated.

Any adviser assisting you with a DRO will know this procedure (or should do)

Link to information on the Common Financial Statement (CFS) - this is different to Stepchange and is used where DRO's are concerned.

http://www.cfs.moneyadvicetrust.org/

Maybe check out the IMA Award winning Citizens Advice online Debt Remedy / solution & Information Resourse tool for help with a DRO or other possible options.

http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk/moneyadvice/

List of Debt Relief Order Competent Authorities below -

http://www.bis.gov.uk/insolvency/personal-insolvency/dro-comp

Below is a relevant paragraph from the above Intermediary guidence notes link, the whole document is very much worth a read if you are considering a DRO.

It is an eligibility requirement for a DRO that the debtor does not have a disposable monthly income, following deduction of normal household expenditure, of more than £50 per month. The Income and Expenditure Account on the application form therefore provides a calculation of how much money the debtor has to spare each month (if any), and stemming from this, whether they are therefore eligible for a DRO.
The Income and Expenditure Account is based on the summary page of the Common Financial Statement used by many debt advisors. It is anticipated that in most cases, although not in all, the intermediary will already have completed a version of the Common Financial Statement (or similar document) following initial consultation with the debtor regarding their financial affairs.

wba31

Depth_Charge wrote: »

Hi

Maybe take a look through the latest set of DRO Intermediary Guidence notes, they do explain DROs very well from the Intermediarys side so to speak (link below)

http://www.i-m-a.org.uk/pdfs/dro-guidance-comments.pdf

Section 8 covers income & expenditure - The Common Financial Statement (CFS) is used in DROs which the last time I looked is more generous than the Stepchange figures and it has very recently been updated.

Any adviser assisting you with a DRO will know this procedure (or should do)

Link to information on the Common Financial Statement (CFS) - this is different to Stepchange and is used where DRO's are concerned.

http://www.cfs.moneyadvicetrust.org/

Maybe check out the IMA Award winning Citizens Advice online Debt Remedy / solution & Information Resourse tool for help with a DRO or other possible options.

http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk/moneyadvice/

List of Debt Relief Order Competent Authorities below -

http://www.bis.gov.uk/insolvency/personal-insolvency/dro-comp

Below is a relevant paragraph from the above Intermediary guidence notes link, the whole document is very much worth a read if you are considering a DRO.

It is an eligibility requirement for a DRO that the debtor does not have a disposable monthly income, following deduction of normal household expenditure, of more than £50 per month. The Income and Expenditure Account on the application form therefore provides a calculation of how much money the debtor has to spare each month (if any), and stemming from this, whether they are therefore eligible for a DRO.
The Income and Expenditure Account is based on the summary page of the Common Financial Statement used by many debt advisors. It is anticipated that in most cases, although not in all, the intermediary will already have completed a version of the Common Financial Statement (or similar document) following initial consultation with the debtor regarding their financial affairs.

You need to put in what you realistically spend, and not use the CFS figures as a target. the CFS figures are provided to debt advisors who are members only, and it is actually against the rules of being a member to share them with non members.
A friend of mine who works at Step Change has told me that the guidelines step change use are slightly different to CFS, but only because CFS groups everything into 4 sections, whereas Step Change break everything down in little bits. They said when they transfer the Step Change budget into CFS figures for completing DRO's there are very very rarely any budgets that dont match.

I am surprised that Step Change's debt remedy is allowing you only £100 for the family make up you are doing it for. Are you sure you have put in the extra adults and children when building your profile?

I have helped a number of people use their Debt Remedy system, the key thing to remember is that it is a computer program so sometimes requires a human touch. There should be a helpline you can call if you get stuck and an advisor can look at what you see and help you get it sorted.

I also wouldnt waste your time reading the intermediary guidance notes. They are the rules and regulations for the debt advisors completing the forms and dont answer your question about your issue with the step change website. give their support team a ring and get them to sort it out for you

Depth_Charge

wba31 wrote: »

You need to put in what you realistically spend, and not use the CFS figures as a target. the CFS figures are provided to debt advisors who are members only, and it is actually against the rules of being a member to share them with non members.
A friend of mine who works at Step Change has told me that the guidelines step change use are slightly different to CFS, but only because CFS groups everything into 4 sections, whereas Step Change break everything down in little bits. They said when they transfer the Step Change budget into CFS figures there are very very rarely any budgets that dont match.

I am surprised that Step Change's debt remedy is allowing you only £100 for the family make up you are doing it for. Are you sure you have put in the extra adults and children when building your profile?

I have helped a number of people use their Debt Remedy system, the key thing to remember is that it is a computer program so sometimes requires a human touch. There should be a helpline you can call if you get stuck and an advisor can look at what you see and help you get it sorted.

Hi

Interesting

The Common Financial Statement can be used in Debt Relief Orders as it is used by advisers in other debt issues and solutions. The guidelines are very clear on this.

The Stepchange figures are lower for some expenditure (considerably lower in some areas) than the CFS ones so it can be argued that using these figures could be misleading in relation to whether someone would be eligible for a DRO.

The CFS is not for public knowledge as you say but that has nothing to do with if they are used in DROs or not as the guidelines clearly say.

Are you saying that if someone is deemed eligible using the CFS figures put lower amounts that takes them over the £50 per month eligiblity rule then the adviser should leave it at that.

In theory then you could have someone using the Common Financial Statement who is eligible for a DRO and takes this route to successfully clear their debts and someone who puts lower figures (say the Stepchange guidelines for example) and is then deemed not eligible even though both debtors circumstances are the same. What do you do then advise bankruptcy which has fees of £700 against DRO fees of £90? - or maybe a Debt Management Plan even!

The whole point of a DRO is to help people who are deemed to have low income and debts below £15000 and that is the why there is such a thing as the Common Financial Statement which as I have said is clearly stated in the DRO Intermediary Guidelines.

Maybe the Stepchange figures should be brought in line with the Common Financial Statement as many advisers I know are currently questioning this subject.

It is relatively simple and quick to apply the CFS figures as anyone who has access and uses them will tell you.

PS - I have seen many Financial Statement Figures that do not match

It would be interesting to hear Stepchanges view on this, perhaps they would like to step or jump in on this thread and give us a little clarity

wba31

Depth_Charge wrote: »

Hi

Interesting

The Common Financial Statement can be used in Debt Relief Orders as it is used by advisers in other debt issues and solutions. The guidelines are very clear on this.

The Stepchange figures are lower for some expenditure (considerably lower in some areas) than the CFS ones so it can be argued that using these figures could be misleading in relation to whether someone would be eligible for a DRO.

The CFS is not for public knowledge as you say but that has nothing to do with if they are used in DROs or not as the guidelines clearly say.

Are you saying that if someone is deemed eligible using the CFS figures put lower amounts that takes them over the £50 per month eligiblity rule then the adviser should leave it at that.

In theory then you could have someone using the Common Financial Statement who is eligible for a DRO and takes this route to successfully clear their debts and someone who puts lower figures (say the Stepchange guidelines for example) and is then deemed not eligible even though both debtors circumstances are the same. What do you do then advise bankruptcy which has fees of £700 against DRO fees of £90? - or maybe a Debt Management Plan even!

The whole point of a DRO is to help people who are deemed to have low income and debts below £15000 and that is the why there is such a thing as the Common Financial Statement which as I have said is clearly stated in the DRO Intermediary Guidelines.

Maybe the Stepchange figures should be brought in line with the Common Financial Statement as many advisers I know are currently questioning this subject.

It is relatively simple and quick to apply the CFS figures as anyone who has access and uses them will tell you.

PS - I have seen many Financial Statement Figures that do not match

It would be interesting to hear Stepchanges view on this, perhaps they would like to step or jump in on this thread and give us a little clarity

I have contacted the Step Change rep that posts on these boards to ask for a response.
They are one of the biggest providers of free debt advice in the UK, I'd be very surprised if they risk their reputation for forcing people into DMP's as you seem to suggest they might. my contact in their DRO team says they complete more DRO's per intermediary than anywhere else, they seem to take their DRO's pretty seriously...

Depth_Charge

wba31 wrote: »

I have contacted the Step Change rep that posts on these boards to ask for a response.
They are one of the biggest providers of free debt advice in the UK, I'd be very surprised if they risk their reputation for forcing people into DMP's as you seem to suggest they might. my contact in their DRO team says they complete more DRO's per intermediary than anywhere else, they seem to take their DRO's pretty seriously...

Hi

Nowhere have I put anything about forcing people into Debt Management Plans, if I have would you show me?

The intermedairy Guidelines are very clear and there for all to see.

The points and questions I have made and asked are very clear - if someone is not eligible for a DRO by not meeting the £50 monthly disposable income rule then presumably they would be advised and offered another remedy or solution, that is what I would and often do do.

I can get hold of the DRO completion figures and I think that they will clearly show that another agency other than Stepchange completes the biggest percentage by far

As far as Stepchange coming in on this thread I have already invited themin my last post and would have no problem whatsoever in them joining the discussion in fact I would be absolutely delighted as I am quite sure they are aware.

This is an important area on DROs and any clarification can only help people facing the misery of debt and are looking for a long term solution that will allow them a fresh start.

My take as always

wba31

Depth_Charge wrote: »

Hi

Nowhere have I put anything about forcing people into Debt Management Plans, if I have would you show me?

The intermedairy Guidelines are very clear and there for all to see.

The points and questions I have made and asked are very clear - if someone is not eligible for a DRO by not meeting the £50 monthly disposable income rule then presumably they would be advised and offered another remedy or solution, that is what I would and often do do.

I can get hold of the DRO completion figures and I think that they will clearly show that another agency other than Stepchange completes the biggest percentage by far

As far as Stepchange coming in on this thread I have already invited themin my last post and would have no problem whatsoever in them joining the discussion in fact I would be absolutely delighted as I am quite sure they are aware.

This is an important area on DROs and any clarification can only help people facing the misery of debt and are looking for a long term solution that will allow them a fresh start.

My take as always

Maybe I misread what you say but you did say "In theory then you could have someone using the Common Financial Statement who is eligible for a DRO and takes this route to successfully clear their debts and someone who puts lower figures (say the Stepchange guidelines for example) and is then deemed not eligible even though both debtors circumstances are the same. What do you do then advise bankruptcy which has fees of £700 against DRO fees of £90? - or maybe a Debt Management Plan even!"

are you asking if they would re-advise, im sure they would, but im also sure they would be mindful of what the CFS allows and would investigate if the client would still suit a DRO. Like i said, i know people in their DRO unit who assures me that the guidelines are actually very similar, but Step Change have more bits, like food, and clothing, and meals at work, and pet food, which all combine into Housekeeping as CFS understands it.

We all know CAB do more actual DRO's, but when i saw the figures last year, it was most DRO's per intermediary. the difference is that CAB has many many bureau around the country, Step Change channel their DRO's through one team in Birmingham who have around 40 staff... Im pretty certain there are more than 40 intermediaries in CAB

Depth_Charge

wba31 wrote: »

Maybe I misread what you say but you did say "In theory then you could have someone using the Common Financial Statement who is eligible for a DRO and takes this route to successfully clear their debts and someone who puts lower figures (say the Stepchange guidelines for example) and is then deemed not eligible even though both debtors circumstances are the same. What do you do then advise bankruptcy which has fees of £700 against DRO fees of £90? - or maybe a Debt Management Plan even!"

are you asking if they would re-advise, im sure they would, but im also sure they would be mindful of what the CFS allows and would investigate if the client would still suit a DRO. Like i said, i know people in their DRO unit who assures me that the guidelines are actually very similar, but Step Change have more bits, like food, and clothing, and meals at work, and pet food, which all combine into Housekeeping as CFS understands it.

We all know CAB do more actual DRO's, but when i saw the figures last year, it was most DRO's per intermediary. the difference is that CAB has many many bureau around the country, Step Change channel their DRO's through one team in Birmingham who have around 40 staff... Im pretty certain there are more than 40 intermediaries in CAB

Hi

Thanks for the reply and for clarifying some of your previous comments.

Does you or your friend know if the Stepchange advisers have access to the Common Financial Statement? and if so do they use it for Debt Relief Orders?

If they do not have or do the above then it would be a fair question to ask why in my opinion as surely this would help speed up the answer to whether the client meets the eligibility criteria on the £50 per month disposable income rule.

Again I point to the clear Intermedairy Guidelines on this.

We seem to have exausted the debate so lets see what Stepchange have to say if they take the opportunity to join in what is becoming a very, very interesting thread.

I think people considering a DRO could well benefit from this thread and information within it which has to be a good thing in my book.

I wait for any input by Stepchange with eager anticipation and maybe a few searching questions left in the tank:)

I also stand by everything I have put

PS - I will see if I can find the DROs completion figures and put up them up on here


My take as always

wba31

My friend has confirmed they do use the CFS figures for the forms as is expected...

Depth_Charge

wba31 wrote: »

My friend has confirmed they do use the CFS figures for the forms as is expected...

Hi

Thanks for the quick reply

They use both then, going on what you have put in your previous posts, any reason for this I was wondering?

Any news from Stepchange yet as to whether they will be joining in?

Im going out for a while now, but will be back

DC