TS10 Woes...

Baileycat

Hi there, hope you lovely folks can help me with a bit of an irritating situation - I'll be as brief as I can but happy to expand further if necessary.

I was a front-seat passenger in our car, that my partner was driving. We turned a corner at a busy junction and just happened to be stopping there, just off the corner, to pick up our takeaway dinner. We were still in the car though when we were approached by two police officers who were on foot (one of which I believe to be a trainee). They advised that we had just ran the red light as we were turning the corner, and therefore they would be issuing a fine and 3 points. They said that they had "just been about to step on the road, and had they done so then we would have hit them". I know for a fact that my partner did not run the light - another car behind us carried on through the junction, and I'm sure at least one of us would have noticed! Regardless of our protests he was issued with a TS10, 3 points and £60 fine - and the junior officer advised he was going to "charge you as well, in case you don't pay it". This was in amongst stumbling over the correct wording of the rights they need to read you, and calling my partner by his middle name as it appeared on the licence rather than his actual name (he was corrected by the other officer and also my partner on at least two occasions).

Surely if anything, the fact that the officers were not yet on the road means it couldn't have been a red light? The car behind us kept going too? Didn't realise "not paying" was a choice and therefore he was charged as well (although still not entirely sure what this means?).

Part of me wanted to just pay it and be done with it, but I don't see why he should suffer with points on an otherwise clean licence when both of us were present and know this did not happen. A friend advised I should let them take it to court, as they will be unable to prove it as they were on foot and not in a patrol car - but my understanding is that the fine and points will increase if unsuccessful? Part of me thinks also that if it came down to "their word against ours" then we'd be fighting a losing battle and that in the end it won't be worth it if he ends up with several hundred pounds to pay and more points.

Any advice folks? Or has anyone been in a similar situation?

Paradigm

Baileycat wrote: »

and the junior officer advised he was going to "charge you as well, in case you don't pay it".

Surely if anything, the fact that the officers were not yet on the road means it couldn't have been a red light? The car behind us kept going too? Didn't realise "not paying" was a choice and therefore he was charged as well (although still not entirely sure what this means?).

I don't know what it means either, were you both charged???

Baileycat wrote: »

Part of me wanted to just pay it and be done with it, but I don't see why he should suffer with points on an otherwise clean licence when both of us were present and know this did not happen. A friend advised I should let them take it to court, as they will be unable to prove it as they were on foot and not in a patrol car - but my understanding is that the fine and points will increase if unsuccessful? Part of me thinks also that if it came down to "their word against ours" then we'd be fighting a losing battle and that in the end it won't be worth it if he ends up with several hundred pounds to pay and more points.

It's pretty hard defending against the word of a Police Officer but I'd be going here http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=5 (you need to register) to get help.

Your case is a little above the knowledge on this board (no offence anyone)

Baileycat

Paradigm wrote: »

I don't know what it means either, were you both charged???



It's pretty hard defending against the word of a Police Officer but I'd be going here http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=5 (you need to register) to get help.

Your case is a little above the knowledge on this board (no offence anyone)

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Sorry could probably have worded it better haha, no it was only my partner who was charged, I just mentioned that I was in the vehicle at the time to demonstrate that if he had run the light, I for one would definitely at least have noticed, even if he didn't. I don't know what the charge was for or about, it was just presented to him like a separate thing altogether?

I will give that link a go, thank you very much

Paradigm

Baileycat wrote: »

I will give that link a go, thank you very much

Good They know their stuff

Baileycat

Portly_Pig wrote: »

You'll also be told on pepipoo that roadside stops are hard to defend.

If that is their advice then that is fine, I will pay it to avoid it escalating; I'm just not overly impressed and find it very unfair to have to accept these points for an offence that I know he did not commit. I guess that's life though!

fivetide

Any cctv on the lights? If so it will support your case that another car followed you through and the light was green.

Paradigm

Portly_Pig wrote: »

If you can hand on heart say he didn't cross the stop line with the lights on red then take it to court.

Knowing you're right & proving it are two totally different things when it comes to court, as you well know.

Without some "evidence" (witness, cctv etc) then who will the court side with?

Baileycat

Paradigm wrote: »

Knowing you're right & proving it are two totally different things when it comes to court, as you well know.

Without some "evidence" (witness, cctv etc) then who will the court side with?

That's my main concern really, of the situation getting worse than it already is because even though I KNOW it didn't happen, the weight of their side of the story is more likely to be believed given their occupation. I don't know if I'm best to let it go to court and let him put his side of the story across for the sake of avoiding 3 points (the fine doesn't bother me), or just pay up and have it over & done with.

CCTV isn't something that I'd previously thought about, so thanks to those who mentioned this I spoke to someone at the closest restaurant on the junction just there, who advised they do have CCTV looking onto the pavement, but not sure how much of it I will be able to see, nor are they sure about the company's policy on allowing this to be viewed - I was advised to call tomorrow and speak to the manager regarding this, but he did also mention that there is an office across the road whose CCTV may have had a better view of the road, so will call them tomorrow as well to see what they have to say.

Incidentally, if it did show both of us going through on a red (which didn't happen, but hypothetically!) what would the outcome be? Would they follow that up with a letter to the driver behind as well? Or just leave it as it was? :O

Joe_Horner

Baileycat wrote: »

Regardless of our protests he was issued with a TS10, 3 points and £60 fine - and the junior officer advised he was going to "charge you as well, in case you don't pay it".

Got to ask the obvious, but what are the payment instructions and are you sure they were policemen?

FPNs are an alternative to charing, and if you dont pay then it escalates without them "charging you as well". I may be over cynical, but that sounds like a way of scaring you into just sending a cheque / card details to somewhere they maybe shouldn't be sent.

Joe_Horner

That's not quite the same as saying "we'll charge you as well to make sure". Besides, no harm in double checking that the payment instructions are legit - it'd be an easy scam to set up and a lot of those caught would probably never even realise!

Baileycat

Joe_Horner wrote: »

Got to ask the obvious, but what are the payment instructions and are you sure they were policemen?

FPNs are an alternative to charing, and if you dont pay then it escalates without them "charging you as well". I may be over cynical, but that sounds like a way of scaring you into just sending a cheque / card details to somewhere they maybe shouldn't be sent.

Thanks, that's a take on it that I hadn't thought of haha - especially as they crossed the road straight back to where they came from and started writing another ticket, almost immediately, for a cyclist on the pavement! You could be forgiven for thinking they were just handing them out willy nilly and were imposters.

However having just dug out the ticket, it does indeed appear to be legitimate - "notice of conditional offer of fixed penalty - offender's copy", payable to the Justice of the Peace Court within 28 days to a court fines office by cash, cheque, postal order or debit/credit card. Good shout though, that was definitely worth clarifying to be certain