Newbie to XP - help needed

Debt_Free_Chick

wolfman wrote:

The main thing with backups, please note, is to check that you can actually restore from the backup, otherwise it's a waste of time.

And that is why DVD/CD is considered to be less than ideal. On average, one is likely to get more read/write errors than with a hard drive. Whilst HDs do fail, the ratio of failures is much lower than those experienced with DVD/CD.

Off-site storage is the ultimate ideal, but perhaps not critical for home users - or rather, perhaps only for critical data that you absolutely could not afford to lose. On-site backup is more for the ability to avoid the inconvenience of losing all your data i.e. the stuff that it's "nice to have" rather than "absolutely need to have".

If you want off-site storage, why not buy identical USB hard drives and rotate them weekly? Where would you store them? Good question, but a secure place away from the house (boot of car? neighbour's house? relative's house?) would do the trick.

Ideally you would also have decent backup software. The type that can create incremental backups and occasionally recycle the backup media and, an absolute must, one that will run automatically, without the need to be logged on, so that the backup runs without any need for user intervention. Mine runs at 2.00 am!

Many people think that they backup, when they really create a duplicate set. Nothing wrong with that, but you need a good system and the discipline to make the copy - the one day you can't be bothered is the day you wished you had! And you need to know where everything is stored. If you run XP and Outlook, your pst file is NOT in My Documents ... what else is not there?

Those with the relevant knowledge will know or find all the relevant workarounds. Those without need a foolproof (or as near as) system, as they won't want to do or be able to understand all the research needed to result in a robust, usable backup.

Just my thoughts ...

spankymonkey_2

when i purchased my new pc last year i was prompted to make a back up disc automatically.... just wait till it pops up again asking you to back up. i think it took 3 or 4 discs to do but its worth it if the worst should happen!

T4i

Backing up to CD/DVD is fine! I've never heard so much tosh in my life. As long as you use good CD/DVD's and you are certain your backup is free of virus/ etc then this is fine. I've done it without any problems. Backing up to a HDD is a pointless exercise, HDD's can go at any time, and once they go its usualy impossible to retrieve the data.

If your comp gets a surge of electricity and blows chances are stuff connected to the mobo are fried too. Not likely but seen it happen. If it does happen youve lost your original data and the backup. :rolleyes:

CD/DVD's can be put away in a safe place...........also easy to carry them round.

Debt_Free_Chick

If your comp gets a surge of electricity and blows

Surely you have a power surge protector? Only cost about £10 and the first thing to buy after your PC

Debt_Free_Chick

Backing up to CD/DVD is fine! I've never heard so much tosh in my life. As long as you use good CD/DVD's and you are certain your backup is free of virus/ etc then this is fine. I've done it without any problems.

I don't disagree if you are disciplined, know exactly what to backup and can sit there to swap the CDs/DVDs if the backup doesn't fit on one disk. But for a newbie, a backup to an external USB hard drive like the Maxtor requires nothing except the initial set up.

When did you last back up - just a harmless bit of fun! I have an incremental backup for the last 5 days and my full (recycle) backup from 6 days ago. And I do .... errmmmm... nothing. I set it up 6 months ago and it runs, unattended, overnight.

Not trying to pick a fight, but for a newbie, I think a "set it & forget it" option has many advantages.

You're right - HDs can fail ... as can CDs & DVDs

wolfman

Debt_Free_Chick wrote:

And that is why DVD/CD is considered to be less than ideal. On average, one is likely to get more read/write errors than with a hard drive. Whilst HDs do fail, the ratio of failures is much lower than those experienced with DVD/CD.

I too have to totally disagree with that. CD/DVD's are ideal, and as I said before you can verify the data upon burning it. And if you're using branded discs and decent software, then the chance of it failing is very slim, and if it does you just burn it again when it tells you verification failed. T4i has a good point, in that hard drives can easily fail, or become corrupted.

The bad thing about creating a setup and forget backup like you say, is that you do forget about it. The system, file locations etc... may change, plus it may be failing each time anyway. Plus it's only sat on the 2nd drive. It is worth putting in place, but for a newbie the best solution would be to do that and backup the files every week or two onto a cd/dvd or usb pen.

Windows has an inbuilt backup util which is fine for a newbie, Start > All Programs > Accessories > System Tools > Backup. It's got an inbuilt Wizard too.

alison74

I am pretty lost now, I must admit, but I will persevere !

Thanks for all the help so far................

Debt_Free_Chick

wolfman wrote:

I too have to totally disagree with that. CD/DVD's are ideal, and as I said before you can verify the data upon burning it. And if you're using branded discs and decent software, then the chance of it failing is very slim, and if it does you just burn it again when it tells you verification failed. T4i has a good point, in that hard drives can easily fail, or become corrupted.

As can CDs/DVDs. I don't think anyone can say for sure that any media will never fail

The bad thing about creating a setup and forget backup like you say, is that you do forget about it. The system, file locations etc... may change, plus it may be failing each time anyway. Plus it's only sat on the 2nd drive. It is worth putting in place, but for a newbie the best solution would be to do that and backup the files every week or two onto a cd/dvd or usb pen.

So you just backup the entire hard drive. Anyway, an incremental backup tracks all the file changes. It compares the way the drive looks now to how it looked at the previous backup. Are you confusing an "intelligent" backup program with a simple "I must copy my stuff" type system? An intelligent backup verifies the backup set and produces a log. It also tells you if the backup failed e.g. if the power supply was interrupted.

The Dantz Retrospect backup software (bundled free with the Maxtor One-Touch USB drive) does all of this. And it compresses & encrypts the data too.

Different things work for different people

T4i

I am pretty lost now, I must admit, but I will persevere !

Sorry about this, you will get different views from different people regarding possible solutions to your question. I think you have 2 options now:-

1) Buy an external USB/Firewire HDD to backup data

2) Buy a DVD writer and some good media and backup

Option 2 will be cheaper by about £40......

I still think backing up to DVD discs is best, theres alot more that can go wrong with a HDD due to its mechanical structure. I finally bough a lite-on DVD writer + Ritek discs from SVP ( http://www.svp.co.uk/ ) backed up over 10Gigs worth of old skool tunes. Even though there already backed up to a second HDD its made me happier knowing there on a disc safe.

+ with Re-Writable discs you can amend the data as you wish. Ok, more time consuming than a program that will look at the data for changes and amend acourdingly but just as effective.

+ With a DVD writer you can back-up your favourite DVD originals. Great idea for collectable DVD's that you dont want to use.

wolfman

Debt_Free_Chick wrote:

As can CDs/DVDs. I don't think anyone can say for sure that any media will never fail.

I never said they wouldn't, and you can reduce the chance of failure. Having said that failure doesn't matter if you're verifying the disc, because you just burn it again if it fails. With regards to data, you can still use backup software, and just copy the incremental file it makes. On a business level, I'd agree with you, CD/DVD's aren't a way to go, but for the average home user, with cost in mind, they're fine.

Debt_Free_Chick wrote:

Are you confusing an "intelligent" backup program with a simple "I must copy my stuff" type system? An intelligent backup verifies the backup set and produces a log. It also tells you if the backup failed e.g. if the power supply was interrupted.

Not at all. I use Veritas Exec. With that and the Windows backup you can set it to do backups on a regular basis, or schedule. As you say though (or from the above two) they create logs, but these still need to be checked.


For the OPer though, I would suggest.

1) Use the backup app in Windows XP, it'll be fine for your needs. Look in Start > All Programs > Accessories > System Tools > Backup.

Use the wizard to select which files you want to backup. Backup them up to a 2nd hard drive, or if not then at least to the same hard drive. This way if you change anything, or accidentally delete it you can retrieve your data quickly. This acts as a local, quick backup.

2) Buy a CD or DVD burner (I'd recommend the NEC ND3520, it's only about £40). Then copy either the incremental archives, made above, or the files that you want. You can create a template in cd creating software like Nero, so it'll only update the disc with files that have changed on the hard drive. This may sound like a lot of work considering you could automate it, but it'll keep you in touch with your backups. People often start backing up, but eventually assume everything is ok, only to go and check the logs etc... and find out the backup has been failing for the last 2 months. And believe this always happens at the worst of times.