My car stolen but insurance will not cover..

dacouch

There's plenty of case law for theft of cars with keys from the Ombudsman.

I've been stung by posters asking for advice and with holding vital information that meant the advice given was incorrect and a waste of posters time.

If the OP can clarify exactly what happened it would help greatly

rs65

Fel wrote: »

He then quickly seized my car keys from me, jumped into the car, and kicked off at an astonishing speed.

Fel wrote: »

He then quickly jumped into the car, and kicked off at an astonishing speed.

So, which is it?

More importantly, what did you tell the police and your insurers?

atrixblue.-MFR-.

Portly_Pig wrote: »

Don't talk rubbish.

your doing a good job of that by yourself.;)

kaya

If you reported it to the police as theft (which in my opinion it was as you didn't give him the keys or leave the car unattended) then the crime number or reference report from the police should list this as theft , I would let the insurers try and argue it with the police , have you contacted the insurance onbudsman as well? The fact that he snatched the keys from you should be enough proof , he stole them from you before stealing the car

OddballJamie

The un-edited version is that the key was left on the dashboard. Still no idea where the guys family disappeared to and how he got there.

Smells fishy to me.

atrixblue.-MFR-.

Portly_Pig wrote: »

It doesn't matter what he reported it as, he doesn't decide what the offence is. If force was used its robbery is it not?

But since the keys were on the dash, it's theft despite the fact some think it's an aggravated twoc.

theft of a motor vehicle.

the fact he had permission to look in the vehicle, and the owner was present, but not permitted to drive makes it a TWOC.

the fact it was taken and driven in an aggressive manor as to cause a child to hit the deck as a result incure injury minor or major aggrevated vehicle taking by fear for using a firearm or sharp object or the object itself (using the vehicle as a weapon).

carjacking also comes to mind, but like robbery carjacking is to deprive by force or fear using a firearm or sharp object to deprive of conveyance.

robbery, definition of robbery is to deprive by force or fear!.

your thinking of burglary to wich does not apply as its not building or dwelling or outhouse shed ETC.

harveybobbles

Does the OP have the guys phone number from when he first called about the advert?

atrixblue.-MFR-.

Portly_Pig wrote: »

TWOC is to cover the defence to theft of I wasn't going to keep it. Since the matter was reported before the vehicle was recovered that makes the recorded offence theft.

You don't need a weapon to rob someone. Car jacking is not an offence and your definition of robbery is not one under English law.

legislation, NOT LAW FORGET LAW TAKE LAW AND FOLD IT UP AND CHUCK IT IN THE BIN,

taken from http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60
(legislation see it in the web address)
8 Robbery.


(1)A person is guilty of robbery if he steals, and immediately before or at the time of doing so, and in order to do so, he uses force on any person or puts or seeks to put any person in fear of being then and there subjected to force.

(2)A person guilty of robbery, or of an assault with intent to rob, shall on conviction on indictment be liable to imprisonment for life.

robbery, definition of robbery is to deprive by force or fear!. carjacking in a term is not a stand alone offence no, it falls back to plain robbery! ine terms of legalities

for the rest of your points

[F912A Aggravated vehicle-taking.


(1)Subject to subsection (3) below, a person is guilty of aggravated taking of a vehicle if—

(a)he commits an offence under section 12(1) above (in this section referred to as a “basic offence”) in relation to a mechanically propelled vehicle; and

(b)it is proved that, at any time after the vehicle was unlawfully taken (whether by him or another) and before it was recovered, the vehicle was driven, or injury or damage was caused, in one or more of the circumstances set out in paragraphs (a) to (d) of subsection (2) below.

(2)The circumstances referred to in subsection (1)(b) above are—

(a)that the vehicle was driven dangerously on a road or other public place;

(b)that, owing to the driving of the vehicle, an accident occurred by which injury was caused to any person;

(c)that, owing to the driving of the vehicle, an accident occurred by which damage was caused to any property, other than the vehicle;

(d)that damage was caused to the vehicle.

(3)A person is not guilty of an offence under this section if he proves that, as regards any such proven driving, injury or damage as is referred to in subsection (1)(b) above, either—

(a)the driving, accident or damage referred to in subsection (2) above occurred before he committed the basic offence; or

(b)he was neither in nor on nor in the immediate vicinity of the vehicle when that driving, accident or damage occurred.

(4)A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years or, if it is proved that, in circumstances falling within subsection (2)(b) above, the accident caused the death of the person concerned, [F10fourteen years].

(5)If a person who is charged with an offence under this section is found not guilty of that offence but it is proved that he committed a basic offence, he may be convicted of the basic offence.

(6)If by virtue of subsection (5) above a person is convicted of a basic offence before the Crown Court, that court shall have the same powers and duties as a magistrates’ court would have had on convicting him of such an offence.

(7)For the purposes of this section a vehicle is driven dangerously if—

(a)it is driven in a way which falls far below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver; and

(b)it would be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving the vehicle in that way would be dangerous.

(8)For the purposes of this section a vehicle is recovered when it is restored to its owner or to other lawful possession or custody; and in this subsection “owner” has the same meaning as in section 12 above.]

12 Taking motor vehicle or other conveyance without authority.


(1)Subject to subsections (5) and (6) below, a person shall be guilty of an offence if, without having the consent of the owner or other lawful authority, he takes any conveyance for his own or another’s use or, knowing that any conveyance has been taken without such authority, drives it or allows himself to be carried in or on it.

(2)A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) above shall [F4be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or to both.]

F5(3). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

(4)If on the trial of an indictment for theft the jury are not satisfied that the accused committed theft, but it is proved that the accused committed an offence under subsection (1) above, the jury may find him guilty of the offence under subsection (1) [F6and if he is found guilty of it, he shall be liable as he would have been liable under subsection (2) above on summary conviction.]

[F7(4A)Proceedings for an offence under subsection (1) above (but not proceedings of a kind falling within subsection (4) above) in relation to a mechanically propelled vehicle—

(a)shall not be commenced after the end of the period of three years beginning with the day on which the offence was committed; but

(b)subject to that, may be commenced at any time within the period of six months beginning with the relevant day.

(4B)In subsection (4A)(b) above “the relevant day” means—

(a)in the case of a prosecution for an offence under subsection (1) above by a public prosecutor, the day on which sufficient evidence to justify the proceedings came to the knowledge of any person responsible for deciding whether to commence any such prosecution;

(b)in the case of a prosecution for an offence under subsection (1) above which is commenced by a person other than a public prosecutor after the discontinuance of a prosecution falling within paragraph (a) above which relates to the same facts, the day on which sufficient evidence to justify the proceedings came to the knowledge of the person who has decided to commence the prosecution or (if later) the discontinuance of the other prosecution;

(c)in the case of any other prosecution for an offence under subsection (1) above, the day on which sufficient evidence to justify the proceedings came to the knowledge of the person who has decided to commence the prosecution.

(4C)For the purposes of subsection (4A)(b) above a certificate of a person responsible for deciding whether to commence a prosecution of a kind mentioned in subsection (4B)(a) above as to the date on which such evidence as is mentioned in the certificate came to the knowledge of any person responsible for deciding whether to commence any such prosecution shall be conclusive evidence of that fact.]

(5)Subsection (1) above shall not apply in relation to pedal cycles; but, subject to subsection (6) below, a person who, without having the consent of the owner or other lawful authority, takes a pedal cycle for his own or another’s use, or rides a pedal cycle knowing it to have been taken without such authority, shall on summary conviction be liable to a fine not exceeding [F8level 3 on the standard scale.]

(6)A person does not commit an offence under this section by anything done in the belief that he has lawful authority to do it or that he would have the owner’s consent if the owner knew of his doing it and the circumstances of it.

(7)For purposes of this section—

(a)“conveyance” means any conveyance constructed or adapted for the carriage of a person or persons whether by land, water or air, except that it does not include a conveyance constructed or adapted for use only under the control of a person not carried in or on it, and “drive” shall be construed accordingly; and

(b)“owner”, in relation to a conveyance which is the subject of a hiring agreement or hire-purchase agreement, means the person in possession of the conveyance under that agreement.

Taking motor vehicle or other conveyance without authority.


(1)Subject to subsections (5) and (6) below, a person shall be guilty of an offence if, without having the consent of the owner or other lawful authority, he takes any conveyance for his own or another’s use or, knowing that any conveyance has been taken without such authority, drives it or allows himself to be carried in or on it.

(2)A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) above shall [F4be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or to both.]

F5(3). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

(4)If on the trial of an indictment for theft the jury are not satisfied that the accused committed theft, but it is proved that the accused committed an offence under subsection (1) above, the jury may find him guilty of the offence under subsection (1) [F6and if he is found guilty of it, he shall be liable as he would have been liable under subsection (2) above on summary conviction.]

[F7(4A)Proceedings for an offence under subsection (1) above (but not proceedings of a kind falling within subsection (4) above) in relation to a mechanically propelled vehicle—

(a)shall not be commenced after the end of the period of three years beginning with the day on which the offence was committed; but

(b)subject to that, may be commenced at any time within the period of six months beginning with the relevant day.

(4B)In subsection (4A)(b) above “the relevant day” means—

(a)in the case of a prosecution for an offence under subsection (1) above by a public prosecutor, the day on which sufficient evidence to justify the proceedings came to the knowledge of any person responsible for deciding whether to commence any such prosecution;

(b)in the case of a prosecution for an offence under subsection (1) above which is commenced by a person other than a public prosecutor after the discontinuance of a prosecution falling within paragraph (a) above which relates to the same facts, the day on which sufficient evidence to justify the proceedings came to the knowledge of the person who has decided to commence the prosecution or (if later) the discontinuance of the other prosecution;

(c)in the case of any other prosecution for an offence under subsection (1) above, the day on which sufficient evidence to justify the proceedings came to the knowledge of the person who has decided to commence the prosecution.

(4C)For the purposes of subsection (4A)(b) above a certificate of a person responsible for deciding whether to commence a prosecution of a kind mentioned in subsection (4B)(a) above as to the date on which such evidence as is mentioned in the certificate came to the knowledge of any person responsible for deciding whether to commence any such prosecution shall be conclusive evidence of that fact.]

(5)Subsection (1) above shall not apply in relation to pedal cycles; but, subject to subsection (6) below, a person who, without having the consent of the owner or other lawful authority, takes a pedal cycle for his own or another’s use, or rides a pedal cycle knowing it to have been taken without such authority, shall on summary conviction be liable to a fine not exceeding [F8level 3 on the standard scale.]

(6)A person does not commit an offence under this section by anything done in the belief that he has lawful authority to do it or that he would have the owner’s consent if the owner knew of his doing it and the circumstances of it.

(7)For purposes of this section—

(a)“conveyance” means any conveyance constructed or adapted for the carriage of a person or persons whether by land, water or air, except that it does not include a conveyance constructed or adapted for use only under the control of a person not carried in or on it, and “drive” shall be construed accordingly; and

(b)“owner”, in relation to a conveyance which is the subject of a hiring agreement or hire-purchase agreement, means the person in possession of the conveyance under that agreement.

if you want to know about english and welsh common LAW you refure to google is your friend, perhaps try and interprate the magnacarta.

statute law.
family law. all derive from high court judges post dating the english common law,
ACTs are legislation passed by parliament these are aimed to be implemented alongside english common law.

real1314

Theft.

Doesn't matter what the insurance contract says on theft - UK law defines if it's theft or not.

Lack of force / unattended issues - doesn't matter what the insurance contract says, statute over-rides contract, therefore it's what statute says, and after that what the ombudsman says.

Nothing to debate really - complain to insurer, if the complain fails go to ombudsman.

Robbery / TWOC are just a distraction.

emma1982

I am about to sell my car soon and I am absolutely shockedby your story. How this could happen. I feel sorry for you mate and I truly donot know what advice to give you to be honest but it makes me wonder as well.