Do I need eave protectors?

facade

I live in a brick built semi, dating from 1959.
Bay window, wavy concrete tile roof. Felt inside (with a few holes that show the tiles from inside the loft, but never any water in the loft)

Story is, I engaged a trader to rehang the vertical tiles on the bay (steel nails rusted, and tiles all wobbly)
He pointed out that I have water staining on the facia boards, and that this is caused by the felt that should be sticking out from the roof edge and lapping into the tiles deteriorating, and he can lift the bottom rows of tiles and fit those black moulded eave protectors to deflect water into the gutter (for £400) Yes I know they are £2 a metre but I'm not going up there and working off a ladder.

Now, I think the problem may be that this was my late father's house, and one day I arrived to find that the slightly leaky, but arrow straight 60 year old cast guttering had been replaced (by John Wayne and friends) with some short lifespan plastic, that currently looks like a dogs back leg, and I think they are simply overflow marks. (It was well silted up last winter)

I don't like heights, but I've been for a look, and there is no sign of any overlapping felt, on my house or next doors. Walking the estate, I find signs of staining on other peoples facias too.

What I can tell you, is the bottom edge of ribbed tile extends 1/3 over the gutter, and is standing on a flat tile the same length.

What I don't want is for water to be running inside the facia, and rotting the soffit.

My question is, did this construction ever have such a flap of felt? strikes me that in The Olden Days they built to last, and the felt would have rotted from sun exposure anyway, so likely they used a different method?

Should I get this job done?

I'm disposed towards getting someone to fit guttering properly, and no doubt this would be in the way.

Furts

For generations the roofing felt used was a cheap product known as Type 1F, This was made from recycled rags and textiles.

All felt should dress down into the gutter, so any rain that gets past the tiles runs down the top of the felt and drains into the gutter.

Type 1F is not resistant to uv light and decays where it is dressed down into the gutter. It was banned from being used in these locations on new homes at least 25 years ago. However, this rule was rarely enforced, in my experience. NHBC recommended using Hyload dpc, or similar, here in lieu of felt.

Spool on more to date and permeable felts were introduced (less susceptible to uv degradation) and eaves protectors (IMHO these are better).

Eaves protectors must be installed with the felt running over the top of them. I would recommend the eaves protector is combined with a ventilation tray, unless you already have a well ventilated roof - most roofs are not well ventilated. Ideally ridge venting or tile vents would also be installed.

If your roofing contractor has not explained the ventilation issue this might flag up that he is not a competent contractor.

facade

Thankyou.

From what you say, and some research, it seems as though I do need this doing- but not by him.

As long as the tiles are sound, nothing is landing on the felt, so the soffits are not receiving any water (they have air holes with insect grilles so they can't be full up) I guess things have been this way for 50 years or more though.

As to the price?

21m of eaves protector is about £50, a days work for the tradesman and a labourer with 25% profit and the £400 seems reasonable to me.

I think I'll get the guttering changed for something that fits the house first.

Furts

If the soffits have "air holes and insect grilles" this is positive. However, this would not have been 1950's building practice, so this has been fitted since.

The soffit vents are good, in theory, but do rely on the roof insulation not fouling the flow of air for ventilation. This is why modern practice allows a ventilator tray to be installed at the same time as the eaves protector. This will cost a little more, but I would strongly recommend it.

southcoastrgi

the house is 54 yrs old & so you would expect some marks on the facia, water doesn't run up hill, the tiles go over the gutter & the water runs off them into it, the felt is really only there incase the tiles let any water through (although these days the felt lets air in as well), for donkey's yrs no felt was ever used, if the felt isn't visable then the only way to address that is to take off the bottom row(s) of tiles & put felt in under the existing, by lifting the bottom row of tiles to fit protectors & not putting in more felt you will be allowing a bigger gap underneath to allow rain to be driven in, which imo is going to make matters worse

facade

I've declined the job, I'm hoping the Summer will be dry to give me time to find out/make my mind up.
The tail of felt clearly hasn't been needed for many years, and I think the watermarks are a red herring, as I don't imagine water going uphill from the tiles to run down the fascia, I'm 90% sure it is overflow from the gutter: I hope that doesn't get over the fascia! With the state of the internal felt, if a torrent was running down under the tiles it would have got in the loft by now.

The loft was insulated 20+ years ago with that vacuum cleaner fluff stuff, piped in from the ground. There is a board floor in there now as I use it for storage and The Train Set (every man has to have a railway layout), compacting the fluff. Now I think about it, it might be a good idea to vacuum any fluff out of the soffits in case water gets into them to give them a chance to dry out (Also, if it comes out damp, I will know there is a problem)

It is my understanding that 2 rows of tiles come off, then the eaves protector pushes under the felt. then a couple of nails through the felt into the rafters hold it in place before the weight of the tiles goes on top.

Oh, the "insect grilles" are those round pepper pot lid type plastic things that you used to see under the beds in a caravan, about the size of a 2 shilling piece. There are a couple in each soffit.

cyclonebri1

Furts is correct, the stuff degrades and infact disintegrates over the years, this is why you don't see it on other houses of the same age. My garage was built 15 years ago by myself, there is no bitumen based "felt" showing to the outside, there was when I built it.

Just to add, it isn't critical to the rain proofing of the house as you have noticed, at least not once the tiles are on, there aren't many 30 year old houses let alone ones from the 50's that don't have a few holes in the felt, many caused during the build infact

Furts

facade wrote: »

I've declined the job, I'm hoping the Summer will be dry to give me time to find out/make my mind up.
The tail of felt clearly hasn't been needed for many years, and I think the watermarks are a red herring, as I don't imagine water going uphill from the tiles to run down the fascia, I'm 90% sure it is overflow from the gutter: I hope that doesn't get over the fascia! With the state of the internal felt, if a torrent was running down under the tiles it would have got in the loft by now.

The loft was insulated 20+ years ago with that vacuum cleaner fluff stuff, piped in from the ground. There is a board floor in there now as I use it for storage and The Train Set (every man has to have a railway layout), compacting the fluff. Now I think about it, it might be a good idea to vacuum any fluff out of the soffits in case water gets into them to give them a chance to dry out (Also, if it comes out damp, I will know there is a problem)

It is my understanding that 2 rows of tiles come off, then the eaves protector pushes under the felt. then a couple of nails through the felt into the rafters hold it in place before the weight of the tiles goes on top.

Oh, the "insect grilles" are those round pepper pot lid type plastic things that you used to see under the beds in a caravan, about the size of a 2 shilling piece. There are a couple in each soffit.

The usual grilles are approx 68mm diameter and should be at a maximum of 150mm centres. It sounds like your roof is not adequately vented - you might have condensation running down the underside of your felt.

facade

So having the tails missing and allowing a draught inside at the edge of the tiles is helping me? And that is why you suggested ventilation trays in your original reply?


I am going to think about this one for a while.
I had half decided to get the guttering replaced with nice half round stuff that is fixed every 2 feet and joins next doors half round properly, then the eaves protector can go in at the same time for little extra cost.


I'd best get a couple of people who know what they are doing to suggest the course of action and quote for the job. I will do this when I'm next on holiday.

Thanks for the advice.

keystone

Sorry but now you are going to get a conflicting opinion.

First the sarking felt. When the house was built it had done its job by the time the tiles were put on. After that it was redundant. If the roof was properly tiled then (yes there is always an if) there is no need for felt underneath. I'm putting money on the bodged guttering replacement causing this problem using an insufficient number of brackets and resulting in flexing. It's an overspill issue IMO because of that and absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with a lack of or degradation of felt. Modern methods may well be belt and braces using eaves protectors. That doesn't mean that retrospectively such will help your house one iota. This is a money saving site after all.

I would agree that if you have insulation down behind the fascias and sitting on the soffits you probably now have inadequate ventilation. But on a 50s roof design then removing that insulation away from the eaves should reinstate the designed ventilation for the roof without any need for additional venting arrangements.

Sorry to have muddied the pool.

Cheers

Furts

This was not from my post but having "the tails missing" is not helping you. If snow blows under the tiles, or you have a broken tile or you have condensation running down the underside of your felt...this is why there should be a dress down into the gutter detail.

I have suggested eaves vents and your post indicates you have inadequate roof ventilation. There are various types of eaves vents to suit tiles and designs. All exist to direct an air flow into the roof ,ideally over the eaves protector and via the underside of the felt. None are expensive.

Whilst doing the work I suggest you either get bird stops fitted or get an over fascia vent detail or an eaves vent that does not allow bird entry. Without knowing the tile profile and manufacturer I cannot be more specific.