Small Claims & PPCs

Coupon-mad

Worth adding this useful post from Ian Williamson who posted it to help Aldi customer victims of Parking Eye who have got a Small Claim:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62390347#Comment_62390347

Summarises what to cover in most defences against most PPC fake PCNs which go to a small claim, and gives a summary of what happens when.

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In addition, posters who have any long-term debilitating medical condition which slows them down (blue badge or not) are allowed to park for longer. Even a parent shopping with a child who has ADHD or ASD can park for longer as it is a legal right if the need is there, or a person shopping who has anxiety or depression which often makes their purchasing decisions take longer and their organisation at the till when paying & packing could be slower.

As are Mums who were delayed due to breastfeeding a new baby.

And arguably, as are elderly people as there is a limited 'ageism' section in the Equality Act 2010...and certain conditions of age would meet the definition of disability anyway (e.g. gout, arthritis, rheumatism, diabetes and other symptomatic longterm conditions).

All such visitors can take their time when shopping & legally are entitled to a reasonable adjustment to park for longer if needed, which Parking Eye and Aldi both know very well, here's the proof in their leaflet at Aldi Preston:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=77891

BBC article from 2010 (even before the Equality Act, under the old DDA it was already illegal to expect a disabled person to be arbitrarily limited to the same parking time as an able boded person):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8488737.stm

Parking Cowboys website summary on this issue:

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/disabled-bay-blue-badges/

It is not just old men in Kompressor or BMW cars with a Blue Badge who are protected disabled (although IMHO many like to think the world owes them a living)!

And of course people do not need a Blue Badge in a private car park as it's not applicable on private land (check the handbook and YouGov website about the scheme). Disabled people can use a disabled bay on private land as long as they fit the definition of disability and as a result of their condition, actually need to park nearer the store or in a wider bay.

All certainly worth including in any defence if a driver or passenger is legally protected.


HTH

Z0rr0

bargepole wrote: »

Here it is in a more digestible format:

County Court Claims – The Procedure (England & Wales Only: different procedures apply in Scotland or NI)

More people seem to be receiving County Court Claims from PPCs since October 2012. This guide is designed to show what to expect, and how to deal with them.

1) The first step is the Claim Form (Particulars of Claim) N1, which will usually come from the Northampton bulk clearing centre, if done using Moneyclaim Online, or from Salford if done manually. It should contain a Court stamp, and a claim number in the format 9NN99999. If you are in any doubt as to whether it is genuine, telephone the Court and quote the claim number. MCOL claims will also have a password to allow you to respond online.

2) You have 14 days to return an Acknowledgement of Service (AOS). If you fail to respond, an automatic Default Judgment will be entered against you, and you will then have to pay the amount claimed within 21 days, or have a County Court Judgment (CCJ) recorded against you, and on your credit file.

3) You should select the option which says “I intend to defend the claim in full”. This extends the deadline to 28 days, and gives you the time to post details of your case in its own thread on the Pepipoo private parking forum, and receive advice, and an initial skeleton defence statement, from one of the experienced members of the forum. Make sure that anything you post does not allow the PPC to identify who you are – they trawl these forums looking for suitable “victims”. You may well receive a Private Message (PM) about your case, offering to help. Only respond to PMs from established members with over 1,000 posts to their name.

4) Your defence statement then needs to be sent off, either to Northampton or Salford. Once they receive it, they will send a copy to the Claimant, and you will then be sent a Directions Questionnaire (DQ), which can also be downloaded online (form N180 - new as from 1st April 2013). This must be completed within 28 days, and a copy sent to both the Court and the Claimant.

The questions on it should be answered as follows:

i) Settlement – Do You Wish To Use The Mediation Service? – Generally, the advice is to say No to this. The PPC’s position is that they want the full amount of the claim; your position is that they have no case, and you owe them nothing. It may be, in cases where it was a Pay & Display car park, and you either didn’t pay at all or overstayed the time paid for, that you could opt for Mediation, and offer them the relevant amount of the hourly parking charge. They almost certainly won’t accept it, but it strengthens your position if it goes to Court and you can demonstrate that you offered to make good their actual losses.

ii) Location of Hearing – This is where you get the case transferred to your local Court, normally the County Court nearest to your home address.

iii) Track – it needs to be on the Small Claims Track. Costs are very limited on this track, normally around £50 or so.

iv) Witnesses / Expert Evidence – Both of these are Not Applicable

v) Dates – Put down any dates on which you are unavailable to attend Court, eg pre-booked holidays.

5) Once you have sent off the DQ to either Northampton or Salford, they will then send the case file to your designated local Court. A Judge will look at the papers, and unless he decides that the Claimant’s particulars are so flimsy that the case should be struck out, he will allocate a Hearing date, usually some weeks or months ahead. Both the PPC (The Claimant) and you (The Defendant) will get a letter advising the date. In order for the hearing to actually take place, the Claimant has to pay a Hearing Fee of £35 no later than 14 days before the listed date. If they fail to do this, the Claim is struck out by the Court, and the order sent to both parties. (Note: This is the most common scenario with properly defended claims).

6) Once you have a court date, get back in contact with the member who prepared a skeleton defence for you, and they will then supply the full defence statement and court bundle. We have a number of “standard” paragraphs which apply to almost all PPC defences, but we also need to personalise the statement with particulars about how the ticket was issued, what the PPC is claiming in their POC, whether the ticket was pre or post 1st October 2012, what was on the signage, etc.

7) In the (rare) event that the PPC proceeds all the way to a contested hearing (this only happened 34 times in 2012), you must attend court on the date and time specified. You can bring a friend or relative to speak on your behalf as a Litigation Friend. These hearings are informal affairs, conducted in a side room with the Judge and both parties sitting around a table – no wigs, gowns or jury. The Judge will (or should) have read the papers beforehand, and will invite both the Claimant and Defendant to summarise their case. It is therefore essential that you have read, and fully understood, your defence statement, and that you are prepared to make the arguments. After hearing all the arguments, the Judge will either find for the Claimant, in which case you have to pay within 21 days, or find in favour of the Defendant, which means you owe nothing. If this happens, have a statement of your costs ready to hand to the Judge (see CPR 27.14) and he may make an order for the Claimant to pay your costs. The eventual outcome can be a bit of a lottery, as different Judges in different courts seem to vary widely in their application of the relevant law. This is why preparation, preparation and more preparation are essential.

Thanks for the advice.

I noticed the Small Claims Track fee of £50 when reading other threads. Makes me think is it worth all the hassle and months of back and forth especially if i lose. Quick question (big if) but if i did lose, would i have to pay the other parties expenses and costs too?

Just concerned I will end up with a big fat bill.

Thanks in advance

Coupon-mad

- PE issue bulk claims = £15
- then if they do bother to push it to a hearing = £25 I think
- and it's a small claim and they have an in-house (paid) Solicitor so they can't claim a big fat load of costs, it's not allowed. The costs may typically be £50.

That's it, plus the original NTK amount without the 'discount'. No other costs or debt collector extras can be added as per the POF Act 2012.

AND THAT'S IF IT GOES TO A HEARING AND ONLY IF YOU LOSE. IF YOU WIN AND HAVE TAKEN A DAY OFF WORK & IF YOU PAID FOR TRAVEL TO YOUR LOCAL COUNTY COURT, I THINK YOU CAN CLAIM UP TO £90 COSTS PLUS A FEW HOURS WORK ON IT AT £18 AN HOUR! SOMEONE WILL CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG.

zzzLazyDaisy

I have just helped someone to send a very robust reply to an LBA (which I couldn't have done with out the help of the regular posters on here in bringing me up to speed, so thanks to you all for that). We are now waiting to see if the PPC cancels the charge, so more on that later.

But in the process I realised that following the Practice Direction (and forcing the PPC to follow it) gives the RK/Driver a massively bigger chance of preventing the claim from going to court and getting the parking charge cancelled - simply because the PPC's are unlikely to want to comply with the steps that the Practice Direction says they must take BEFORE they can issue proceedings.

At the moment the PPCs seem to be getting away with not being PD compliant because people receiving an LBA and the threat of court action are generally not aware of the Practice Direction.

So I have prepared a Guide to following the Practice Direction on Pre-action Conduct in parking charge cases. I don't want to tread on anyone's toes so I am here to ask whether the regular posters think this would be a good idea to post this (I can always delete it if it's not considered helpful).

Daisy

Coupon-mad

Yep, post it I say, the more help the better.

bazster

Oooooh, yes please!

zzzLazyDaisy

Okay, thanks I'll post it up - any comments, amendments, suggestions, clarifications welcome - remember I have a lawyer's brain - we often don't think in the same way as 'normal' people :rotfl:

Coupon-mad

According to some PPC bosses we are all armchair lawyers on here so you will be a breath of fresh air!

Semolina_pudding

Ok here goes... I am one of those pestered souls who has followed the advice of ,which worked for one 18mths ago,but thosepeeps are on my case,like 1000's of others it transpires (do the courts not need the resources to fight the good fight for genuine cases of injustice????)
The papers came on Friday & I intend to fight, so I am goggle eyed from ALL the relevant reading.I am not conversant in law, but feel unless I employ someone who is I could end up talking drivel should it get to that stage.
Firstly when I send back the form Acknowledge of Service,what is the difference in ticking 'I intend to defend all of this claim' to 'I intend to contest the jurisdiction'? And what should I state in my defence on this initial form, the truth as a 50+ lady sees it, or state meaning of breach on contract etc etc quoting paragraphs of of obviously 'not my words' I am quite articulate as I had previously defended my O/H in an employment tribunal (and won!) Or do I leave that until(or if) it actually gets to court?
Is it enough to state the facts as I see them, & surely wouldn't iget as far as court for a 21min overstay in a 'Free Car Park' with no POSSIBLE means of making a payment for extra mins unless an ANPR cameras now have the technology to take our well earned pennies from us!:rotfl: ALSO this car park,which I note as other posters have stated as the Aldi car park who now apparently have in store(link removed) leafletsforums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=77891[/url] (see the note re my health status)
This car park has 4 stores ALDI/BLOCKBUSTERS/POUNDSTRETCHERS/ABAKHAN/ and after a few phone calls today,the other store confirm that PE manages all their parking, so therefore if ALDI allow 1hr 30mins for their shoppers ( it was 1hr 20min in my case) how can you possibly shop in more than one shop? & days before Xmas.....why would there be queues I wonder?:xmassmile
Aldi last min shop ( I am a woman,enough said:D) still have receipts timed @ 14.55 I was 'snapped' leaving @15:00:07 and arrived at 13:18:46, and waited a good 5 mins for a space as it was peeing it down,so no one wanted to get in their cars,although they might have if they knew they would get charged for trying to keep dry I with bags of Xmas shopping:mad:,anyway I digress. I browsed in the fabric/craft shop,as you do and made purchases in £stretchers(didn't keep rec as it was a cash transaction)I asked for some help to carry stuff to the car and the reason for this maybe relevant from what I have read.
So does the 1hr 20min mean you can not go into another store,therefore it equates to 20mins in each if you can...it can take me that just to pick one film!
My first thought was to ask for the Calibration Certificate to ensure that their time lines are accurate etc ??? and then offer to pay the equivalent fee pro rata to 21mins parking the multistory car to compensate in real terms for the consequential loss of business to the land/store owner,not themselves,as I was not parked in their terms 'illegally' (yellow line/disabled bay/hatched lines etc etc) so surely they can not claim for damage/trespass ? Is it also true that this 'fine' would be exactly the same should you have parked there say in excess of 4 hours,if so surely the'fine' is obviously disproportionate ????:money:
Another point is that if you are affected long-term debilitating medical condition (with or without blue badge) should be allowed double the time to shop.I am a sufferer and could present medical evidence to substantiate this,at the moment recovering from spinal surgery and undergoing pain management & further surgery(hence needing items from £stretchers carrying)but don't want to play the sob story just have the rights due to me....am I being unfair?
Sorry if I have waffled,blame the medication & dare I say the stress(not to mention the menopause,phased return to work,but definite brain fog & the addition of blonde highlights....to cover the grey obviously!!)
On a serious note I really need some advice ASAP before I make a right plonker with a £150 21 min parking Invoice,I wouldn't let my bank get away with charging me that for an unauthorized overdraft now would I :A:A:A
Thanks one and all & apologies if you see this copied on other advice sites, I need all the help I can get!

OH AND BY THE WAY, DON'T SHOP THERE ANY MORE AND USE PROPER CAR PARKS THAT YOU PAY FOR THE TIME THAT YOU STAY,OR GET IT ON LINE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE POSTAL/DELIVERY COMPANY INSTEAD!!!

:money:

Coupon-mad

Why is your question posted here in the advice sticky about how to defend?

Please copy & paste it into a new thread and someone will see it in the morning. Could you also go 'advanced' on your edit and delete this post from here as this sticky isn't a discussion thread or for new questions. It's an information thread.