surely this isnt right...

inacrisis

Hello everyone,

Have quite a bizarre situation going on..

In novemeber i got a letter for a speeding ticket that happened ten weeks earlier, i have a company car so the letter went to them first and they passed on my details and it got to me eventually. Anyways my car has 3 people insured on it and 2 of us regularly drive. The offence was at 7pm so could od been any of us and the picture isnt clear. I wrote back saying i couldnt say who was driving as i cannot remember who was driving ten weeks previoisly. I nevwr heard again off them. The 31st mar i went to thailand for 3 weeks and on the 11th april a letter arrived summoning me to court on the 25th. I only opened these letters last wednesday then i had another letter from dvla aaying i need to submit my.license to be endorsed, then today a letter from court saying i owe them 885 in court costs....firstly how can then say the driver was me from an inconclusive photo...secondly i wrote explainging tgis but i have been apparently chatged with not suplying driver details. ...and lastly how can they summon me to court 2 weeks after a letter and i am not even in the xountry and penalise me for this.

I genuinely wasnt trying to get out of the charge originally the photo ahowed basically just a hand on the wheel.

If anyone could help or give advice would be really appreciated.

P.s sorry for the spelling. I am on my phone and it is not to.good with this forum

ILW

Who is the registered keeper?

Stooby2

Get yourself to the court first thing Tuesday morning, explain what has happened and they will re-open the case; for you to put your case to the magistrate at a new hearing (not that day). Take all copies of letters you sent, your passport (with the stamps in to show your were away etc). Get the date for the new court hearing in writing and forward a copy to the DVLA or they will revoke your licence if you don't submit it or a letter from the court.

reddwarf2002

Similar thing happened to a friend of mine. There were two drivers and neither of them knew who was driving at the point the camera flashed as it was a long journey and they took turns (I'm sure they did, probably just trying it on - unless it was a non-flashing camera?!). He was summoned at the magistrates and offered a similar story but he was told to decide who was going to take points between themselves as it wasn't an acceptable excuse. As he was the main driver he decided to take it on the chin.

I'm sure the OP will have a similar outcome. However if you were able to re-open the case then I can see the fine being reduced if nothing else.

Richard53

I got a summons for speeding a while back. I requested a copy of the photo evidence and then wrote back saying I would be challenging the charge as I had good reason to believe that the equipment was faulty (long story, and not relevant here). Next I heard I had been convicted in my absence, and had my licence returned with points on it.

I wrote to explain the circumstances, and the court had no hesitation in setting my conviction aside and arranging a retrial, so it seems that they are prepared to be reasonable over procedural errors similar to the OP's.

I had my day in court, lost, and got a bigger fine plus costs as a result of my refusal to bend over, but that's another story.

Johnmcl7

As above if you want to re-open the case, you'll need to make a statutory declaration which can be done in your local court or through a solicitor (for a fee). You have 21 days to do this from finding out about the conviction and it will return the case back to the start so you're not penalised for not being able to attend the first time.

With regards to the offence itself, you've not been charged because you were the driver but because you failed to provide the details of the driver when requested. When served with a valid Section 172 notice unless you unequivocally state one person (either yourself or someone else), you will likely be summoned to court on a failure to furnish charge. The purpose of the photo is to provide the evidence of the car speeding, it isn't required to be able to identify the driver as that's the function of the S172 notice although they normally do provide photos in case they do assist with identification.

To successfully defend the failure to furnish charge you'll need to demonstrate that with reasonable diligence you could not identify the driver. This can be difficult as the magistrates will have seen this many times before so it's worth doing some reading to see what you should have done to attempt to identify the driver and why you weren't able to do so.

John

spiro

As others have said it is your responsibility to know who was driving the car at any point in time. Companies can face huge fines if they fail to keep such records as in the past it has been used as a method of escaping prosecution.

inacrisis

Am i able top ring the court Tuesday? There is no chance of me getting it off work? I find it a little strange they say you decide who takes the points of you are not sure who is driving?

Is the 600 fine for not attending court or for not supplying details of the driver?? I have just got back from Thailand where they say the justice system is corrupt but this countries doesn't seem much more organised.

Thanks for you're reply but I'm not some company who keeps records of who is drivinga car at certain times and dates. This is going to get really messy cause i split up with my ex two months ago and we don't even speak any more.

keith1950

i have a company car so the letter went to them first and they passed on my details and it got to me eventually. Anyways my car has 3 people insured on it and 2 of us regularly drive. The offence was at 7pm so could od been any of us and the picture isnt clear. I wrote

You say that 'YOU' have a company car, so you are responsible for who drives it, if you are genuinely unsure who was driving then man up and accept it yourself'

If you know it wasn't you then give them the details of the next probable driver.

You cannot weasel out by saying 'I don't know' and as you have found out this can end up very expensive.

soolin

inacrisis wrote: »

Am i able top ring the court Tuesday? There is no chance of me getting it off work? I find it a little strange they say you decide who takes the points of you are not sure who is driving?

Is the 600 fine for not attending court or for not supplying details of the driver?? I have just got back from Thailand where they say the justice system is corrupt but this countries doesn't seem much more organised.

Thanks for you're reply but I'm not some company who keeps records of who is drivinga car at certain times and dates. This is going to get really messy cause i split up with my ex two months ago and we don't even speak any more.

No, telling you to decide who takes the points would be against the law so forget that bit. Get yourself over to http://forums.pepipoo.com/

they'll advise you what to do.

As above you either prove 'definitely' that you have done everything to ID the driver, can show a paper trial of looking at phone records, visa cards etc for spends and even then the chances of getting away with it are nigh impossible. Or you get done for failing to furnish which is usually 6 points and a very large fine. The onus is on you to state who was driving, not for the enforcers to do so, photos are to assist you but not to prove who was driving.

Anyway, get across to that other website, they can go through how to get reheard and perhaps deal back down to a speeding charge which will be less points and money.

Also forget any corruption here, your duty was to provide details of the driver- that's all the NIP wanted, and you failed to do that and have received the fine laid down by the courts. You have not been done for speeding as they do not have enough evidence to do anyone on that, which is how it should be.

Johnmcl7

inacrisis wrote: »

Am i able top ring the court Tuesday? There is no chance of me getting it off work? I find it a little strange they say you decide who takes the points of you are not sure who is driving?

You will need to go to the court or a solicitor to make the statutory declaration, it can't be done over the phone.

Is the 600 fine for not attending court or for not supplying details of the driver?? I have just got back from Thailand where they say the justice system is corrupt but this countries doesn't seem much more organised.

The £600 is mainly the fine for the failure to furnish charge, it is a band C fine (the highest of the three) which is 150% of your weekly income. (range is 125-175%). If the court doesn't have financial figures they assume £300 per week I believe it is, the rest will be court costs and the victim support fee (this is added regardless of whether there is a victim or not).

Thanks for you're reply but I'm not some company who keeps records of who is drivinga car at certain times and dates. This is going to get really messy cause i split up with my ex two months ago and we don't even speak any more.

That likely no longer matters as now it doesn't matter so much who was driving but why you were unable to provide the details of the driver when requested. I would second the recommendation for the PePipoo forums (it's an odd name but a very good forum for motoring legal advice) and in particular find similar threads to read up on how to prepare your defence. As well as a hefty fine and six penalty points, insurance companies don't like the MS90 failure to furnish conviction and so insurance premiums can rise significantly if convicted of the offence and it has to be declared for five years.

John