Booster homework:SATS

thunderbird

thegirlintheattic wrote: »

Understand what you are saying but the SATS do influence targets and setting in secondary school.

High SATS level = higher sets in seted subjects for at least the first year (and often through KS3).

Targets are calculated primarily off the SATS results, which means a bad result may result in the child being put in lower ability classes if targets are used in setting. An abnormally high result for a child may leave them with an unattainable high target. Secondary schools can't alter targets so your child is stuck with them, even if it's obvious that the SATS were a blip.

That can't be for every school though - my son's secondary school doesn't operate like that.

thegirlintheattic

thunderbird wrote: »

That can't be for every school though - my son's secondary school doesn't operate like that.

Every school I have worked in/visited have used SATS (or during the boycott, the teacher assessments), along with RaiseOnline etc. to arrive at end of KS3 targets (based on minimum expected progress). These in turn are used to come up with the end of year targets (again, based on minimum expected progress - which can vary between schools, ours is aspirational - 1 level of progress a year).

Setting/streaming varies between schools but in my experience Yr7 English, Math and Science sets (when used) are heavily dependent on SATS performance. It's more variable for other subjects, in my school other subjects are not setted, but I've worked in schools where English levels were used to determine sets, which were then reworked during the year. Yr8 and 9 setting/streaming is highly variable between schools but again, in all but one school I have seen targets have influenced sets. For example a student with a level 7c target will not be put in a bottom set, even if they are not performing at a level 7c. It's not uncommon for students to have targets that are wildly out from how a student is performing, which unfortunately leaves some students always under performing, where as others have too low a target, and get complacent.

I'm not saying all schools do the same, just giving my experience having sat through countless setting meetings and discussions about targets and sets.

In the OPs case, I agree that the SATS are not as important as her son's health and wellbeing. In general though, while students shouldn't be worried about the tests, telling kids that their teacher is lying when they say SATS affect secondary school is not right.

balletshoes

thegirlintheattic wrote: »

Every school I have worked in/visited have used SATS (or during the boycott, the teacher assessments), along with RaiseOnline etc. to arrive at end of KS3 targets (based on minimum expected progress). These in turn are used to come up with the end of year targets (again, based on minimum expected progress - which can vary between schools, ours is aspirational - 1 level of progress a year).

as has been said though, not all schools work like that, and targets are just that - targets. A number on a piece of paper that at the start of year 7 might as well have been plucked out of the air, prior to ability testing. In my opinion, SATs might actually mean something to the pupil rather than just the school if the school didn't start revising for SATs 4 months before the exams, encourage booster homework etc etc etc. I'm amazed that any child gets their correct level of SATs results knowing what goes on in year 6 prior to them taking the tests.

The regular (ie bi-monthly ish) ability tests/assessments my DD's year 7 classes take in just about every subject is far more relevant as far as knowing what the pupils' actual levels are, as they don't cram for them in advance. As I said before, my DD's secondary school did those ability tests on the familiarisation days, before the kids even started year 7, and set the children initially based on those tests. Now I'm not saying that they didn't see and consider the SATs results alongside their own test results, but the kids were not set by SATs results alone, nor the reports sent up from primary school.

daisiegg

thegirlintheattic wrote: »

Understand what you are saying but the SATS do influence targets and setting in secondary school.

High SATS level = higher sets in seted subjects for at least the first year (and often through KS3).

Targets are calculated primarily off the SATS results, which means a bad result may result in the child being put in lower ability classes if targets are used in setting. An abnormally high result for a child may leave them with an unattainable high target. Secondary schools can't alter targets so your child is stuck with them, even if it's obvious that the SATS were a blip.

Not my school! For a start, we do CAT tests and baseline assessments when they first arrive. But secondly - we don't even set in English until Year 10! I think they may be set in maths in Year 8 although I am not really sure what the other subjects do.

I don't think it is the norm for all schools to use SATs results to set in Year 7 - certainly not around here. If someone is worried I suppose they would need to find out what their intended secondary school does.

securityguy

daisiegg wrote: »

Not my school! For a start, we do CAT tests and baseline assessments when they first arrive. .

I asked around at about the time I was contemplating withdrawing my children from SATs. All the local secondaries used CAT, MidYIS or equivalent, and were extremely dismissive of the value of SATs.

peachyprice

daisiegg wrote: »

Not my school! For a start, we do CAT tests and baseline assessments when they first arrive. But secondly - we don't even set in English until Year 10! I think they may be set in maths in Year 8 although I am not really sure what the other subjects do.

I don't think it is the norm for all schools to use SATs results to set in Year 7 - certainly not around here. If someone is worried I suppose they would need to find out what their intended secondary school does.

Yes, this is what they do at DD's school, she had CAT's on her induction day in July, the first half term they were there they has maths & English assessments, they were streamed from their CAT's and moved around a bit after their first assessments. They then had assessments every half term up until Easter to make sure they were in the right sets, then they'll have one more assessment and eoy exams before summer and go into y8 sets based on that, not on their y6 SAT's.

Our sets are very fluid, and I'm sure other schools are too, the children certainly wouldn't be put in a set and kept there just because of their SAT's results. Perhaps it helps initially, but it's quite ridiculous to think that a school will keep a child in a set throughout secondary school based on how they performed one summers day when they were 10-11 years old.

Madmel

Egypt191 wrote: »

Update so far is that the head is still giving DS booster homework, he's not doing it, but so far she's not punished him, but shes trying to make him feel bad in front of classmates ( doesn't work so well on a child with aspergers though). For all of the homework he doesn't complete, she gives him more the next time, and asks him to complete the previous lot. He's accumulated about 4hrs worth so far!
What's most interesting, and I thought may happen, is she hasn't moved him from the top set of booster classes, all she keeps doing is asking my DS if he enjoys her class or not ( in front of the other students) he never knows what to answer, so always says yes.

He's also been told that he has to take the level 6 paper anyway now, so he's now worrying about this, because he doesn't want to, he'd rather just take the level 5.

Egypt191, I am so sorry for your poor DS caught in the middle of this. However, I am now really angry with the school. What you have described is bullying and you need to act now to stamp it out. Ask politely but firmly to see a copy of their anti-bullying policy, as it is your right to do this. Then write using the chain in the policy. The comment about medication is appalling and had someone made a comment like that to me, I would have asked to see evidence of their medical qualification [soon shuts 'em up!] I think a word with any specialist your DS sees or the GP - they should then contact the school to remind them of their duty of care.

As far as the homework is concerned, you have a couple of choices. Burning it is one of my favourites; we actually did it with DD2's mis-spelled Americanised nonsense that she was *told* to do. I calmly told the teacher concerned that the work was a waste of time and paper. When she said that DD still had to do it, I told her that we were short of kindling and it had received the treatment it deserved. Cue filthy looks at me, but not DD's fault and no sanctions. Alternatively you could do it for your DS [I hate typing this, but this is a far from normal situation] so he keeps out of trouble. My other favourite is to complete it in Latin [some splendid stuff on Apple's Pages products] or utterly wrongly: e.g. "Write a page about something that made you happy" had us writing a whole lot of random and completely irrelevant things like an analysis of a piece of music [my area of expertise & one the teacher knew nothing about] or a shopping list. Oh the fun I had last year! Now I work in their school, I have to behave - but then, the homework is largely relevant and appropriate so I have few issues.

If you really really want to make trouble, feel free to PM me, but there are a number of avenues open to you to make life very difficult for the teacher and Head. Most of all, you sound like a great parent at a very trying time - in 8 days it will all be over

jellyhead

Egypt191 wrote: »

Thank you:D This is the first time I have laughed in a week! I know what I'll be doing now then.....
There's no relationship with the school to destroy, the headteacher leaves in July, a new one starts, my youngest is only there for one more year. I'd home school, but I'm homeschooling my eldest until his new school starts in Sept, and I think I'd let both of them down if I was educating them both.:(

If you decide to home school don't feel that you'd be letting either of them down! Even if they get lower results than expected you are still doing what you think is best, and trying your best. Reducing the migraine-inducing stress for your child is not letting him down!

My eldest is in the 6th form now but back when he was in year 6 it was a straighforward 'level 5' that the school were pushing for, and he got stressed, saying that if he didn't get 'straight 5's' in maths, english and science he was a failure I let him go on holiday with his dad just before the SATS, even taking a half day off school, but the school weren't being pushy and they let him have the holiday. He got his straight 5's (which amazed me if I'm honest, because there was no way that he was an above average pupil in literacy) but little good it did him.

At the end of year 9 his literacy level was only a 4a which was actually lower than it had been in year 6 (I know it's different when they get older, but still, you'd expect a bit of progress in 3 years!).

susancs

daisiegg wrote: »

Not my school! For a start, we do CAT tests and baseline assessments when they first arrive. But secondly - we don't even set in English until Year 10! I think they may be set in maths in Year 8 although I am not really sure what the other subjects do.

I don't think it is the norm for all schools to use SATs results to set in Year 7 - certainly not around here. If someone is worried I suppose they would need to find out what their intended secondary school does.

Secondary schools in our region use the same system as your school does to set KS3 targets.

de_g.

Horrible situation, but some genuinely sensible advice from others.

As an aside, can I use this as am example of how bad for a child's education chasing Ofsted ratings can be? In too many areas, gaining and then maintaining an 'Outstanding' rating becomes the raison d'etre of the school rather than the inevitable outcome of providing a great education. When choosing a school, you need to know how it feels, not how good they are at meeting government floor targets.