BTL "fraud"

Generali

pickles110564 wrote: »

Because he has not got the b@lls and has the green eyed monster he has to knock hard working homeowners/LL's.

Rubbish. I work 50 hours a week in an investment bank. I'm a hard working, financially sucessful father.

The bit that gets my goat is the cant of people who think that because they've bought into the upside of a bubble are the next Warren Buffet! I'm just looking forward to the day that cant turns to hubris.

pickles110564

I wish it would crash because I would go out and buy up a load more and make loads of tenant's happy with excellant homes to rent

lynzpower

Rick62 wrote: »

If you have to pay it back then yes you have lied, committed fraud and pushed up prices (presumably you've been able to spend £4k more than if they had not lent you the money).

If however there is no legal agreement on paying it back (well pay it back if you like, when you can) then probably you could treat it as a gift . the key point from the lenders point of view is whether or not it is a 'financial commitment', so an obligation and agreement to pay £100/month would be a commitment while a voluntary understanding to pay it back if and when you like is not a commitment as such.

Ah! thanks for the clarity Rick.

It wasnt that I got a higher mortgage amount, just one with a slightly lower rate.

I did pay them back - but it tooo ka few years of negotiating with my dad to accept it

Guy_Montag

lynzpower wrote: »

Ah! thanks for the clarity Rick.

It wasnt that I got a higher mortgage amount, just one with a slightly lower rate.

I did pay them back - but it tooo ka few years of negotiating with my dad to accept it

& to think I once respected you, but it turns out all house price inflation over the last 10 years is your fault.

lynzpower

Guy_Montag wrote: »

& to think I once respected you, but it turns out all house price inflation over the last 10 years is your fault.

I think more to the point is the fact that when I str I banked a staggering amount of money

I can just about sleep at night now

Alan_M_2

This type of fraud isn't seen as "Fraud", it's a middle class white collar crime and the perception is no one gets hurt because it's a faceless financial institution that you're defrauding.

I deal with a similar fraud on a daily basis that is seen as socially acceptable - VAT fraud.

You ever paid cash for anything to avoid the sales tax? Well that's no different to this type of mortgage fraud. Yet with VAT fraud it's even more socially acceptable as the faceless financial institution is the government, who, after all, are just there to screw us right?

I for one would be happy to see a cashless society, and I think I will see it in my lifetime (I'm late 30's), VAT fraud therefore cannot exist.

hearts

Generali wrote: »

If house prices ever fall so reposessions become more common, I think we'll be surprised by the number of people who have used self-cert etc to finance BTL. I did a poll a while back on it and a lot of posters (significant minority) seemed to be of the opinion that it was fine to commit fraud to finance a BTL empire.

Please m8 do me a favour if you are going to quote me don't quote me out of context.
The question you asked at the time was NOT "was it fine to commit fraud to finance a BTL empire"
...and BTL mortagages are based on rental income so self cert is not a factor. Or is this wrong?

Generali

3.19AM! That's commitment to the thread! I hope you've managed a lie in!

hearts wrote: »

Please m8 do me a favour if you are going to quote me don't quote me out of context.

I quoted your entire post and linked to the thread. What's out of context?

hearts wrote: »

The question you asked at the time was NOT "was it fine to commit fraud to finance a BTL empire"

Lying to a bank when you borrow money is fraud. I phrased the question as I did to avoid emotive terms and get to the heart of what people think. The results of the poll and the comments posted seemed to show that a minority of people think it's ok to lie to a bank to get a mortgage to finance their BTL dreams. It appeared that you were one of them (e.g. your "WHO DARES WINS" comment). Perhaps you could clarify if I misunderstood you.

hearts wrote: »

...and BTL mortagages are based on rental income so self cert is not a factor. Or is this wrong?

I believed when I did the poll that some people are buying properties on self cert mortgages and then letting them without the prior knowledge of the bank. The article seems to back up what I thought.

hearts

lol 3.19 I'd just come home !!!!ed. ;-)

Its totally out of context because my reply to your original post was nothing to do with BTLs. You are going on about BTLs now. This is NOT what you asked in the original pole. I answered honestly that I though someone trying to get on the housing ladder ( which I think was the basis of your original pole) was in my opinion right to take the chance and lie.
I NEVER at any time said I though that it was right to lie to build up a BTL portfolio.
By quoting me here and adding the comments you have, you give the reader the impression that I agreed to this. IS THIS NOT OUT OF CONTEXT?

Generali

hearts wrote: »

lol 3.19 I'd just come home !!!!ed. ;-)

I hope the head's not too sore this morning.

hearts wrote: »

Its totally out of context because my reply to your original post was nothing to do with BTLs. You are going on about BTLs now. This is NOT what you asked in the original pole. I answered honestly that I though someone trying to get on the housing ladder ( which I think was the basis of your original pole) was in my opinion right to take the chance and lie.

I NEVER at any time said I though that it was right to lie to build up a BTL portfolio.
By quoting me here and adding the comments you have, you give the reader the impression that I agreed to this. IS THIS NOT OUT OF CONTEXT?

So it's ok to commit a crime to buy a place to live in but not to buy an investment. Is that what you're saying? I don't really see why there would be a difference. I don't think the courts would differentiate when sentencing at the end of a fraud trial.

Sorry to have misunderstood your original point. Happy to be corrected.